A Question of Righteousness

what Allah really thinksWhat I believe Allah really see’s  

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I want to share some word for word communication I have had recently with a jihadist website. And I would really like it if the Muslims here at 360, would read it. I think you might find it enlightening. When I copy/paste the comments from Muslims I have talked too, I will merely refer to them as “Muslim” instead of their user name. Its a little long but worth the read.

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My comment,

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It may be that Allah will grant affection (and friendship) between you and those whom ye (now) hold as enemies. For Allah has power (over all things), and Allah is Forgiving, Most Merciful.
-AL-MUMTAHANA The WOMAN TO BE EXAMINED – SURAH LX:7

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See, that’s exactly how I see the One, I worship, He has power over all things, and is forgiving and merciful. And I love Him because He love me, better yet, I feel the same way that Job did when he said, “though He slay me, yet will I trust Him”.

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I have seen in other posts that you feel that others won’t accept you until you believe as they do.

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“And the Jews and Christians will never be pleased with you until you follow their way…” [al-Baqarah; 120]

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I can tell you and anyone who reads this, that statement is NOT true.

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I don’t care who you worship, and I know that most others, feel the same way. I would NEVER support anyone or anything that would cause one to change their faith by force, or to discriminate against someone because of their faith. It appears to me that you really don’t have a true understanding of how we, as Christians think.

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I believe that faith, is a personal journey, that we should all be free to take, or not, if that is someones wish. That is why God has given us free will.

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Reject hate, embrace love. Bring out the best in Islam by showing your compassion, gratitude and forgiveness. This is the best way to bring other to wanting to participate in any religion. Personally, I became a Christian based on the joy I saw in other peoples lives, I wanted that joy.

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Response from Muslim:

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This verse is not a commandment (Amr) in any way, shape or form. In fact, you need to look at verse 4 of the same Chapter to understand the verse you quoted above. It says,

Indeed there has been an excellent example for you in Ibrahim and those with him, when they said to their people: “Verily, we are free from you and whatever you worship besides Allah, we have rejected you, and there has started between us and you, hostility and hatred forever until you believe in Allah alone…”

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So the meaning of the verse you quoted is, “You continue to show them open disavowal, and know that Allah can guide them to Islam through your exposing of their falsehood (since this is a part of showing open disavowal) and they will be your friends.”

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[ I just have to interject here, and point out the difference between, how a Christian trys to bring someone into the faith, through genuine love and friendship. And how these Muslims do, which appears to be with contempt ]

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This verse is not a commandment (Amr) in any way, shape or form. In fact, you need to look at verse 4 of the same Chapter to understand the verse you quoted above. It says,

Indeed there has been an excellent example for you in Ibrahim and those with him, when they said to their people: “Verily, we are free from you and whatever you worship besides Allah, we have rejected you, and there has started between us and you, hostility and hatred forever until you believe in Allah alone…”

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So the meaning of the verse you quoted is, “You continue to show them open disavowal, and know that Allah can guide them to Islam through your exposing of their falsehood (since this is a part of showing open disavowal) and they will be your friends.”

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You wrote: “I have seen in other post that you feel that others won’t accept you until you believe as they do. “And the Jews and Christians will never be pleased with you until you follow their way…

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No, the verse is true. Here, let me ask you a simple question. Do you support the Mujaahideen against your own people and do you wish for their victory?

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In any case, the Arabic word in this verse is “Millah” meaning “path, way of life, lifestyle etc” So the ending part of the verse is, “until you follow their way of life.”

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If you were to meet someone like me, you would either hate me and respect me at the same time, or hate me and wouldn’t respect me. Why? Because I will show open disavowal to you and will continue to do so, even if you are annoyed by it, until you become Muslim.

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Also, I don’t act like a disbeliever, talk like a disbeliever, walk like a disbeliever, dress like a disbeliever and so on. Many people hate that, but I love it because I live for Allah and I will continue to make sure that the disbelievers who know or see me don’t accept me.

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This verse you quoted has nothing to do with the actual Religion. In other words, it is not strictly saying, “until you follow their Religion” since Allah would have used the appropriate term for Religion which is Madhab. Instead, He wisely chose the word “Millah” since its all-encompassing of the lifestyle, path, etc. of disbelievers.

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Eagle’s response:

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It still appears to me that you really don’t have a true understanding of how we, as Christians, think.

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You said: “If you were someone like me, you would either hate me and respect me at the same time, or hate me and wouldn’t respect me. Why? Because I will show open disavowal to you and will continue to do so, even if you are annoyed by it, until you become Muslim.

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A true Christian, hate sin, but loves the sinner. Which means, what it says. A Christian should always speak with love, (though I have trouble with that myself sometimes), regardless of what is spoken too them. Most true Christians, know this and try to live by the words of Christ, we are not perfect, we are forgiven.

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So, I don’t hate you, or disrespect you. I understand that you think your way is the only way. I feel the same way about Christ. I think one of the main differences, between you and I, are how we choose to share our faith. And I stand by what I said above. Tell me why you think that is wrong. BTW, I am not claiming to be an expert on Islam, I am merely trying to understand.

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You asked if I supported the Mujaahideen against my own people, and do I wish for the Mujaahideen’s victory? I already answered that….

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I would NEVER support anyone or anything that would cause one to change their faith by force, or to discriminate against someone because of their faith. That includes, anyone who tried to force YOU to change your faith, or discriminated against you because of it.

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As far as “Millah” There are many different ways of life, and most of them, I don’t subscribe to either. As any person of faith, we lead our life based on our understanding of the scripture. But we don’t force our belief on others, or hate them if they don’t walk and talk the way we do. (see statement above)

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I believe that faith, is a personal journey, that we should all be free to take, or not, if that is someones wish, that is why God has given us free will.

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I think God wants us to come to Him out of love, not out of fear. Do you believe this??

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Reject hate, embrace love. Bring out the best in Islam by showing your compassion, gratitude and forgiveness. What do you see in this statement that is wrong??

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This is the best way to bring others to wanting to participate in any religion. Personally, I became a Christian based on the joy I saw in others lives, I wanted that joy.

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Why do you share your faith?? Is it out of love?? Do you share your faith based on the fact that you love the person you are sharing with, and want them to go to Heaven with you?? Do you believe, that God is longsuffering, not wishing that any should perish??

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Be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God has forgiven you. Do you believe this statement??

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(after post was erased 3 times, I re-posted the entire comment and added the following)

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If you feel that I have disrespected you in anyway, please forgive me, that is not my intent. I have read everything you have written in an attempt to understand your point of view and in an attempt for you to see mine. Is that not the reason you have comment sections?? I really do want you to answer my questions sincerely. Please don’t just erase it.

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Muslim response:

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Look eagle,
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You are wasting your time. The simple answer to your above statements is:

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We will continue to show open disavowal and enmity to you and your people until you become Muslim because we believe that you, the disbeliever, are the people of hellfire (unless if you become Muslim) and so we will treat you like such. And if you become Muslim, then you will become one of us and we will show mercy, compassion, and love for you and you will be a part of the universal brotherhood.

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If you are inquiring as to us dealing justly with you, the answer is yes and we will deal with you justly.

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If you are inquiring as to us being nice with you, the answer is we are not forbidden from acting nice with you, and nor are we forbidden from acting harsh with you. You are a disbeliever and we actually believe it. That’s the difference between us and you. You people don’t follow your Religion whereas we try to follow it to the teeth. A disbeliever has an evil presence because of their disbelief.

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Your “Millah” is what you follow and whatever it is that you follow, we reject it because it is not Islam.

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You didn’t answer my question about the Mujaahideen. Do you support them? If not, then stop wasting your time because we support them, even if you hate it.

You wrote,

“I think God wants us to come to Him out of love, not out of fear. Do you believe this??”

Allah will accept their Islam as long as he/she accepts Islam. It doesn’t matter if they were brought into Islam harshly or softly. As long as they accept it by the heart, Allah accepts it.

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And nobody is forcing you to change your faith. But we do have a concern regarding your disbelief and that is why we expose it. And blasphemy only deserves harshness.

You wrote,

“Reject hate, embrace love. Bring out the best in Islam by showing your compassion, gratitude and forgiveness. What do you see in this statement that is wrong??”

It is wrong because Islam is balanced with hatred and love whereas you people rejected hatred. Since you rejected hatred, then it means you people love what your god hates; and what does your god hate?

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I wonder if you’ll even admit if he hates anything.

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If not, then we’ll assume that he loves prostitution, adultery, rape, alcohol, pornography, murder, oppression, cheating, stealing, and arrogance.

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And we are assuming that your god doesn’t reject this (since he has no hatred for this evil) because “Christianity is all about love,” right?

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That’s why your religion has no balance. You people are too afraid to speak about hatred. You people can’t even hate what god hates because your cowardice has taken over your steadfastness. You are not ready to face trials and tribulations for loving what god loves and hating what god hates, and showing it openly. This goes for the vast majority of Christians.

You wrote,

“Why do you share your faith?? Is it out of love?? Do you share your faith based on the fact that you love the person you are sharing with and want them to go to Heaven with you?? Do you believe, that God is longsuffering, not wishing that any should perish??”

We share our faith not to convert people like your missionaries. Rather, we share our faith to inform the people of the only truth. And not only do we simply just tell them what Islam is, but we establish it in their locality so they can see the truth working in front of their eyes.

Indeed, we do have a concern for all disbelievers because when they die upon their disbelief, we see it as a tragedy (except in the battlefield) since their soul would be lost in the punishment of the hellfire and we might have had the ability of telling them about Islam. Even at their very last breaths, we wish to tell them: “Say, “There is no deity worthy of worship except Allah and Muhammad is His final Messenger.”

You wrote,

“Be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God has forgiven you. Do you believe this statement??”

No because Allah will never forgive Shirk as long as one is practicing it, and therefore, we will never forgive them nor show them a soft heart. And by the way, Allah forgives all other sins (such as adultery, theft, murder, oppression etc.) but He will never forgive Shirk as long as one dies upon it. Muse over this.

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The real discussion here is why aren’t you Muslim?

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My response to him:

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You said,:

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“What does your god hate?
I wonder if you’ll even admit if he hates anything.
If not, then we’ll assume that he loves prostitution, adultery, rape, alcohol, pornography, murder, oppression, cheating, stealing, and arrogance.’

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The God I worship, hates sin, and probably it is the same sin that your God hates. The main difference is that we try to live by the words of Christ and it is not our place to judge.

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There is a story in the Bible about a woman who was about to be stoned for adultery. Jesus said to the people that were about to do the stoning, “He who is without sin, cast the first stone.” The people left. Jesus said to the woman, “Where are your accusers? Neither do I condemn you, go and sin no more.”

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Although we have our sins forgiven, it does not mean that we are allowed to go out and keep doing the things we were doing before we were saved. The Bible speaks against this.

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Jesus said,: “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.”

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We believe,

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JUDGE not, that you be not judged.
“For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you.
“And why do you look at the speck in your brother’s eye, but do not consider the plank in your own eye?
“Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me remove the speck from your eye’; and look, a plank is in your own eye?
“Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.

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You should learn more about what Christians believe, I am trying to learn more of what Muslims believe. You might find that in some areas we are a lot alike. We like you, have a lot of people who claim to be Christians, but do not act like one.

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We are made right in God’s sight when we trust in Jesus Christ to take away our sins. And we all can be saved in this same way, no matter who we are or what we have done.
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For all have sinned; all fall short of God’s glorious standard.

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Yet now God in his gracious kindness declares us not guilty. He has done this through Christ Jesus, who has freed us by taking away our sins. For God sent Jesus to take the punishment for our sins and to satisfy God’s anger against us. We are made right with God when we believe that Jesus shed his blood, sacrificing his life for us.

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Can we boast, then, that we have done anything to be accepted by God? No, because our acquittal is not based on our good deeds. It is based on our faith.
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Faith eliminates the pride of human effort, because faith is not a work that we do. Faith exalts what God has done, not what people do. Faith admits that we cannot keep the Law, or measure up to God’s standard–we need help. Faith is based on our relationship with God, not our performance for God.

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Well then, if we emphasize faith, does this mean that we can forget about the law? Of course not! In fact, only when we have faith do we truly fulfill the law.

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Paul said, (1 Cor. 4: 3-5) ” I care very little if I am judged by you or by any human court; indeed, I do not even judge myself.
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My conscience is clear, but that does not make me innocent. It is the Lord who judges me.

Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait till the Lord comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of men’s hearts. At that time each will receive his praise from God.”

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(vs12) We work hard with our own hands. When we are cursed, we bless; when we are persecuted, we endure it;

when we are slandered, we answer kindly. Up to this moment we have become the scum of the earth, the refuse of the world.

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Therefore I urge you to imitate me.”

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What a better example to follow?? And as I have already said, Jesus spoke on how to treat people who persecute us because of our faith. You asked me why aren’t I a Muslim. You have not shown me a reason to become a Muslim. I want joy in my life, peace and love and to be able to sing and raise my hands in praise and joy when worshiping God.

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I worship a God that I KNOW loves me. I share my faith because I want others to feel the joy that I feel. When I see Muslims worshiping in the Mosques, I never see them joyfully praising God, or singing to the Lord. Maybe I missed something. Please tell me if I have. Do you sing praises to the Lord? I never see anyone smiling while worshiping.

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You keep asking about the Mujaahideen. And if I support them and I keep answering… I would NEVER support anyone or anything that would cause one to change their faith by force, or to discriminate against someone because of their faith. That includes, anyone who tried to force YOU to change your faith, OR discriminated against you because of it.

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It is just as wrong when you try and do that to Christians, as if Christians did that to you. How is it that you ignore this fact?? I may not agree with you in what, or how you worship. But it is not my place to force you to change.

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Correct me if I am wrong, but as I understand it, you want to create a Taliban style government world wide. Is that true?? If so, how is that any different than if we tried to force our views on you??

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(end of comments)

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These comments were continually erased, no matter how many times I posted them (thank goodness for the copy/paste option. I saved everything into a draft file in my email, in case you are wondering, because they have erased my comments before). I then sent the following comment, knowing it would be read, before it was erased.

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If you are righteous in your thoughts and writings then you should not fear what the kufar has to say. If a person is not using foul language, then why would you erase what they had to say?? Are you afraid that they might influence a Muslim coming to your website?? Surely you don’t think that your opinion is so weak that it cannot stand up to remarks by someone with a differing view.

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Since you keep erasing my comments, I am left with only one thought. You are afraid of others seeing my response. You are afraid that my words might influence another Muslim. You are not as righteous as you would have others believe. Your words are false. You lie not only to yourself but to others. If this was not true, you wouldn’t be afraid of my comments.

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You are afraid, even in this old post that nobody comes too any more. What is it that causes you to erase my post?? Please answer that for me. (end of comment)

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If you are a Muslim, Ask yourself a question, Why erase those comments?? So you tell me, IF they are so righteous, why erase my comments?? That question goes out to the radicals as well.

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Tell me if you see anything offensive in those comments.

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4 Responses to “A Question of Righteousness”

  1. twana Says:

    Eagle have you communicated with this person anymore?

  2. twana Says:

    I must say – you show a lot of mercy and grace! What a great example for me and any others who are blessed with getting to read this…and follow up.

  3. Eagle Says:

    Most of the stuff in my first blogs, I mean any communications with Islamists are all from the same site. I then got wrapped up in my series of bigotry and the new series I am on now, but when I finish I will be going back to my normal topic and will speak with him again.

  4. Eagle Says:

    Thanks but as I said before, it is only by the grace of God. I do get angry, and it takes all to not respond in that manner. The main thing to remember that when we act like jerks, toward people like this, we only prove to them that we are worth killing. Those hateful comments are never erased.


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