More On Different Views Among Muslims Or The Case For Quran Only

More On The Differing Views Of Muslims magnify

  

I know we are in the middle of a series, but I am not prepared for my next post just yet.  I have been saving this one for a while now, even though I wanted to put it up some time ago.  As we have seen over this series there are many different views amongst Muslims.  Between Shia and Sunni, they don’t even have the same Hadiths, which in fact brings me to this post.  There are many questions to my Muslim friends and this post is primarily for them, but everyone should find it informative and interesting.     

This post is dedicated to at least two people whom I have the pleasure of calling friends.  As I have said many times, not every Muslim believes the same way.  There are some who believe in using only the Quran, and that is what this post is about.  I hope you will find it as fascinating as I did, whether you be Christian or Muslim.  I would ask Muslims to read and consider what they have to say, it makes a lot of sense.  

There is another group of Muslims who only look to the Quran called Rashadiites or those who believe in whatever  Rashad Khalifa has to say.  According to what I have been told, they base all their beliefs on what one mans ‘interpretation’ of the original Quran Arabic, and they even leave out some verses (at least that’s the way I understand it). Knowing some of their belief, even I, who doesn’t know much, think its a stretch.  You can read more about it/them here and here.  That is not what I am referring to here, not all Muslims who believe in using only the Quran are Rashadiites.

I will be giving you Stefan’s blog address later in this post, but first let me put in my two cents worth.  One of his most recent posts, was titled, “Critical Thinking A Right (and duty) Of All Muslims”.  I have to agree with him, as it is something that is taught in Christianity as well.  As I have stated before, you must study the scriptures for yourself, if you don’t and merely believe whatever is told to you; You could end up in some death cult like Jim Jones.  

We have gone over many things when talking about Islam and their prophecy.  One of the interesting things is that neither the Mahdi nor Dajjal is mentioned in the Quran, though Gog and Magog is.  We discussed Sufyaani, and when looking at that, it appears that the fight was going to be between Shia and Sunni’s.  My concern is those who want to rush what they see as prophecy, whether it is or not, be it Christian or Muslim.  Some Sunni’s believe that the Shiite Mahdi, is actually Dajjal.  Can you see where I am going here??

I have seen numerous Muslims attack Judaism and Christianity based on those religions placing higher value on their priest’s than on God.  But by the same token, I have seen that the other way around too.  Personally I think that when things get out of balance you need to get back to basics.  When you know that different sects believe differently only because of the Hadiths, well then I have some questions of my own, and I’m not even Muslim.  Did you know that there are Hadiths saying that Muhammad forbid people from writing down what he did??  I didn’t until recently.  What the Hadiths are, is basically that, the words and deeds of Muhammad’s life.

Among the books of hadith regarded as ‘Sahih’ (verified to be authentic), we read the following:

Abi Said Al-Khudary said that the prophet said : “Do not write down anything from me except the Quran.”

[Sahih Muslim Part 18, page 229, also Ahmed, Vol. 1, Page 171]

Abu huraira said that the prophet said, “The ‘Ummam’ (nations/peoples) that preceded you have gone astray when they wrote books and upheld them besides God’s scripture”.

(Ahmed Ibn Hanbal).

The same message is documented in other Islamic references of repute:

Abu Huraira said : The messenger of God came to us while we were writing his sayings and said: “What is it you are writing?” we said “sayings (hadith) we hear from you messenger of God” he said, “A book other than God’s book?” then Abu Huraira said, “so we gathered what we had written and burnt it all”.

(Taqyeed Al-Ilm, by Al-Khateeb Al-Baghdady) also (Oloom Al-Hadith, by Ibn Salah).

I asked my friend about this and how so many can ignore it, when so many others follow nothing but the Hadiths.  His answer was this;

“according to most scholars and researchers, this hadith was specific to the time when the Qur’an was still being written. The reason behind this command was to prevent any risk of confusing the Qur’an with Hadith. However, once the revelation was completed and it was certain that no more verses were going to be descended, it was permissible; and even an obligation to write down the Hadith to preserve it throughout time, because, had the memorizers of the Hadith passed away before writing it down, the Hadiths could have disappeared.”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadith#Controversy

Surah 6

The majority of those on Earth they will lead you (Muhammad) astray because they follow conjecture and what they have found their fathers doing!

“What if their fathers did not understand anything and were not guided ?”

“Shall I seek other than God as a judge when He has sent down to you this Scripture fully detailed?” Those to whom We have given the Scripture know it is sent down from your Lord with truth; so do not be of those who have doubt. (6:114)

And the word of your Lord has been completed with truth and justice; there is no changing His words. He is the Hearer, the Knower. (6:115)

And if you obey the majority of those on Earth they will lead you astray; that is because they follow conjecture, and that is because they only guess. (6:116)

http://www.openburhan.net/ob.php?sid=6&vid=114
http://www.openburhan.net/ob.php?sid=6&vid=115
http://www.openburhan.net/ob.php?sid=6&vid=116

Those who have set up partners will Say: “If God wished, we would not have set up partners, nor would have our fathers, nor would we have forbidden anything.” Those before them lied in the same way, until they tasted Our might. Say: “Do you have any knowledge to bring out to us? You only follow conjecture, you only guess.” (6:148)

http://www.openburhan.net/ob.php?sid=6&vid=148

“No, we will follow what we found our fathers doing.”

It seems to me that so many Muslims are following the footsteps of their fathers without understanding, they are no better than their forefathers and its true and normal according to the Quran to follow others rather than God.

And if they are told: “Follow what God has sent down,” they Say: “No, we will follow what we found our fathers doing!” What if their fathers did not understand anything and were not guided? (2:170)

http://www.openburhan.net/ob.php?sid=2&vid=170

And if they are told: “Follow that which God has sent down.” They Say: “No, we will follow what we found our fathers doing.” What if the devil had been leading them to the agony of Hell? (31:21)

http://www.openburhan.net/ob.php?sid=31&vid=21

two ??

What if their fathers did not understand anything and were not guided?

What if the devil had been leading them to the agony of Hell?

Another comment by Stefan my friend on my WordPress blog, you can see where he is answering someone elses questions;

You have to understand that the verses of the Quran were used to command Mohamed and the Believers all the time, I mean when its time of peace and when its time of war. Every verse of the Quran is related to a certain specific historical incident.

The Qur’an is claimed to be the literal word(s) of Allah as passed to Muhammad. Are you denying this claim? Is the Qur’an more like the general gist of Allah? Are you not flirting with apostasy?

The Qur’an is the literal word(s) of Allah as passed to Muhammad

The Quran is a condensed non-abrogated balanced message, and at the same time its a poem, its not a 1 2 3 book and you have to read it carefully and in context.

Any verse abrogated or quoted out of context misses the whole point of the message of the Quran.

http://pressthat.wordpress.com/2007/09/22/war-in-the-quran/

http://pressthat.wordpress.com/2007/10/21/not-a-single-verse-of-the-quran-is-abrogated/

http://pressthat.wordpress.com/2007/09/22/abrogation-the-biggest-lie-against-quran/

but a lot of verses DO suit their purposes (the dehumanization and violence towards Non-believers, etc).

It is important that we study the religious texts in their proper context. When these texts are not read in their proper textual and historical contexts they are manipulated and distorted.

It is true that some Muslims manipulate some verses from the Quran for their own goals. But this is not only with Islamic texts, it is also true with the texts of other religions. I can quote dozens of verses from the Bible which seem very violent, if taken out from their historical context.

These Biblical texts have been used by many violent Jewish and Christian groups. Crusaders used them against Muslims and Jews. Nazis used them against Jews. Recently Serbian Christians used them against Bosnian Muslims. Zionists are using them regularly against Palestinians.

“How is that not supposed to reflect on the religion as a whole???”

Do not misuse or misinterpret the religious texts of other faiths in order to defame them __ Stefan

I will leave my other blogs address below so you can read more of his comments on that blog.  Also I want to encourage you to read the posts at the links he gave for pressthat.wordpress.com which is his blog.  You can find an article on that verse here the same article is also here.  In addition to that, the links for “openburhan”, are where you can find listed various translations of different verses in the Quran it is very informative. 

But I must say that if you read nothing else, or before you read any of the other blog entries of Stefan and Sukran on PressThat at wordpress,  Read thisIt is or rather shows different Hadiths that contradict the Quran.  Food for thought here, so bear with me… If I as a Christian, followed what the Bible said, and then some hundred years later or so, some book pops up that said, hey I was a disciple and Jesus said ‘this’; but that ‘this’, contradicted what I knew that the Bible said… who should I listen too??

It is my understanding that Muslims consider the Quran to be the actual word of God.  So why would it need, or should it need something else to complete it??  Do you get what I am saying here??  Please don’t misunderstand me, I am not trying to defame your religion.  Those of you who know me from my other blogs know that.  I am merely pointing out some interesting questions and asking for your opinion on it and pointing you towards something you may find challenging.  As challenging as I found it.  If you look at what he has to say, with an open mind, it makes sense.

On more comment and question.  I watched a video of a Preacher who met with and had a hour long interview with the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem.  (for those who don’t know, he would be the third highest behind the Mufti of Mecca and Medina)  During that interview the Preacher asked the Mufti if it was true that there is no compulsion in Islam.  The Mufti said it was true and they discussed it for a bit.  At this point the Preacher asked the Mufti, “If there is no compulsion in Islam, shouldn’t that apply to Muslims as well??”  Actually I think the way he put it was, “So it’s ok for Muslims to convert to Christianity?” It was one of those two comments, at any rate the Mufti was not amused at the comment and actually got angry.  I will find the video and put it up if you want to see it.  But my question is the same as his…

Shouldn’t what is written in the Quran apply to Muslims more than anyone??  And yet someone like my friend here would be considered an apostate because he believes in the Quran alone.  In Islam, changing your faith can be punished with prison or death, depending on the country you are in.  In some parts of the world, someone could come up and kill you for no other reason than you don’t believe the way they do.  Something is seriously wrong with that picture.  Why is it against the law??  Doesn’t the Quran also say that those “apostates”, will have their punishment in the after life??  So why make it a crime now??  And how can making it a crime be justified??  These aren’t rhetorical questions, I would really like an answer. 

In the West the only law we have concerning religion is that we are to be free to worship who we want and how we want, or not if that’s our wish.  Those of you who aren’t American, you do realize why America was formed??  Back in the day, those from England came to America to have freedom of religion.  The King or Queen of England was known as “The Keeper Of The Faith”, which was intertwined with the Catholic Church and then Protestant.  At the time there was no freedom of religion, wars were fought over whether the country would remain Catholic or change.  ((Historians, don’t jump on me, that was just a very small rough draft, to make a point .))  The point is, from the very beginning of America, the government was set up to keep separate religion and government so as to not have the problems that Mary Queen of Scots and Victoria were having in England, and there abouts.

Now that I’ve blathered on, , what is wrong with having freedom of religion, when even the Quran calls for it??     

As you can see, and I have said, Islam is as varied as Christianity, and at least some sects seem a bit ‘out there’, as do some of ours.  The person I have been speaking of is the one who wrote “Don’t blame the Jews” which I posted a little while ago.  I am interested in what our Muslim readers think about it.  Please comment and share your thoughts.  Please note that when going to “Pressthat” it always opens to “About Us”, but if you look on the sidebar you can find the most recent posts.

That was going to be my final thing for this post, because it is getting long, but I just had to add this last thing.  As I said, I will put my other blog address below, starting with where my friend started commenting so you can read his thoughts.  In the mean time, I have to put this last comment of his on here, since we are talking about apostates,  Hadiths and the Quran. Another thing I want to say, for all the calls for death for all who don’t believe like the Islamist…  I have had the pleasure to make friends of Muslims from all of the main sects in Islam.  We hear so many horrible things from people who claim to be Muslim, while they violate the Quran on a daily basis.  It is a wonderful thing when we have the tool you are on right now, to make friends of others from different religions and to discuss our religion, ask questions, answer questions, and all without trying to kill one another.  As long as we do that, there is always hope.  Ok time for the last comment (I promise)…  This answer is in regards to a question about the verse in the Bukhari which states; “Whoever changes their religion, kill them”.The Messenger of Allah SalAllahu alaihi wasallam said:
من بدّل دينه فاقتلوه
“Whoever changes his religion, kill him”. (Bukhari)

I believe that Islam can only be found in the Quran and the messenger’s job to deliver the message.

The teachings of the message delivered by the messenger doesn’t mention any punishments for the Apostate, because he is going to be the loser after all.

وَلاَ تَسُبُّواْ الَّذِينَ يَدْعُونَ مِن دُونِ اللّهِ فَيَسُبُّواْ اللّهَ عَدْوًا بِغَيْرِ عِلْمٍ كَذَلِكَ زَيَّنَّا لِكُلِّ أُمَّةٍ عَمَلَهُمْ ثُمَّ إِلَى رَبِّهِم مَّرْجِعُهُمْ فَيُنَبِّئُهُم بِمَا كَانُواْ يَعْمَلُونَ

And do not insult those who call on other than God, lest they insult God without knowledge. And We have similarly adorned for every nation their works; then to their Lord is their return and He will inform them of what they had done. 6:108

http://www.openburhan.net/ob.php?sid=6&vid=108

وَإِذَا سَمِعُوا اللَّغْوَ أَعْرَضُوا عَنْهُ وَقَالُوا لَنَا أَعْمَالُنَا وَلَكُمْ أَعْمَالُكُمْ سَلَامٌ عَلَيْكُمْ لَا نَبْتَغِي الْجَاهِلِينَ

And if they come across vain talk, they disregard it and Say: “To us are our deeds, and to you is your deeds. Peace be upon you. We do not seek the ignorant.” 28:55

http://www.openburhan.net/ob.php?sid=28&vid=55

وَلَا تُجَادِلُوا أَهْلَ الْكِتَابِ إِلَّا بِالَّتِي هِيَ أَحْسَنُ إِلَّا الَّذِينَ ظَلَمُوا مِنْهُمْ وَقُولُوا آمَنَّا بِالَّذِي أُنزِلَ إِلَيْنَا وَأُنزِلَ إِلَيْكُمْ وَإِلَهُنَا وَإِلَهُكُمْ وَاحِدٌ وَنَحْنُ لَهُ مُسْلِمُونَ

And do not argue with the people of the Scripture except in the best manner; except for those who are wicked amongst them; and Say: “We believe in what was revealed to us and in what was revealed to you, and our god and your god is the same; to Him we surrender.” 29:46

http://www.openburhan.net/ob.php?sid=29&vid=46

We believe that the message is the Truth and we must explain our point of view in a good manner and we have nothing to worry about from apostates but unfortunately the Bukharians who are using the name of Islam to kill anyone who disagree with their policies, exposing their man made religion is a fear for all of them, thats why they think that killing is the solution to avoid those who reject their teachings.

http://pressthat.wordpress.com/

https://eaglespearlsofwisdom.wordpress.com/2007/10/08/israel-prophecy-and-the-end-times-1/

There is an ongoing discussion here:

https://eaglespearlsofwisdom.wordpress.com/2007/10/24/the-women-with-mustaches-who-will-kill-the-mahdi-1/

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A Question of Righteousness

what Allah really thinksWhat I believe Allah really see’s  

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I want to share some word for word communication I have had recently with a jihadist website. And I would really like it if the Muslims here at 360, would read it. I think you might find it enlightening. When I copy/paste the comments from Muslims I have talked too, I will merely refer to them as “Muslim” instead of their user name. Its a little long but worth the read.

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My comment,

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It may be that Allah will grant affection (and friendship) between you and those whom ye (now) hold as enemies. For Allah has power (over all things), and Allah is Forgiving, Most Merciful.
-AL-MUMTAHANA The WOMAN TO BE EXAMINED – SURAH LX:7

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See, that’s exactly how I see the One, I worship, He has power over all things, and is forgiving and merciful. And I love Him because He love me, better yet, I feel the same way that Job did when he said, “though He slay me, yet will I trust Him”.

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I have seen in other posts that you feel that others won’t accept you until you believe as they do.

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“And the Jews and Christians will never be pleased with you until you follow their way…” [al-Baqarah; 120]

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I can tell you and anyone who reads this, that statement is NOT true.

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I don’t care who you worship, and I know that most others, feel the same way. I would NEVER support anyone or anything that would cause one to change their faith by force, or to discriminate against someone because of their faith. It appears to me that you really don’t have a true understanding of how we, as Christians think.

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I believe that faith, is a personal journey, that we should all be free to take, or not, if that is someones wish. That is why God has given us free will.

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Reject hate, embrace love. Bring out the best in Islam by showing your compassion, gratitude and forgiveness. This is the best way to bring other to wanting to participate in any religion. Personally, I became a Christian based on the joy I saw in other peoples lives, I wanted that joy.

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Response from Muslim:

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This verse is not a commandment (Amr) in any way, shape or form. In fact, you need to look at verse 4 of the same Chapter to understand the verse you quoted above. It says,

Indeed there has been an excellent example for you in Ibrahim and those with him, when they said to their people: “Verily, we are free from you and whatever you worship besides Allah, we have rejected you, and there has started between us and you, hostility and hatred forever until you believe in Allah alone…”

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So the meaning of the verse you quoted is, “You continue to show them open disavowal, and know that Allah can guide them to Islam through your exposing of their falsehood (since this is a part of showing open disavowal) and they will be your friends.”

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[ I just have to interject here, and point out the difference between, how a Christian trys to bring someone into the faith, through genuine love and friendship. And how these Muslims do, which appears to be with contempt ]

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This verse is not a commandment (Amr) in any way, shape or form. In fact, you need to look at verse 4 of the same Chapter to understand the verse you quoted above. It says,

Indeed there has been an excellent example for you in Ibrahim and those with him, when they said to their people: “Verily, we are free from you and whatever you worship besides Allah, we have rejected you, and there has started between us and you, hostility and hatred forever until you believe in Allah alone…”

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So the meaning of the verse you quoted is, “You continue to show them open disavowal, and know that Allah can guide them to Islam through your exposing of their falsehood (since this is a part of showing open disavowal) and they will be your friends.”

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You wrote: “I have seen in other post that you feel that others won’t accept you until you believe as they do. “And the Jews and Christians will never be pleased with you until you follow their way…

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No, the verse is true. Here, let me ask you a simple question. Do you support the Mujaahideen against your own people and do you wish for their victory?

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In any case, the Arabic word in this verse is “Millah” meaning “path, way of life, lifestyle etc” So the ending part of the verse is, “until you follow their way of life.”

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If you were to meet someone like me, you would either hate me and respect me at the same time, or hate me and wouldn’t respect me. Why? Because I will show open disavowal to you and will continue to do so, even if you are annoyed by it, until you become Muslim.

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Also, I don’t act like a disbeliever, talk like a disbeliever, walk like a disbeliever, dress like a disbeliever and so on. Many people hate that, but I love it because I live for Allah and I will continue to make sure that the disbelievers who know or see me don’t accept me.

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This verse you quoted has nothing to do with the actual Religion. In other words, it is not strictly saying, “until you follow their Religion” since Allah would have used the appropriate term for Religion which is Madhab. Instead, He wisely chose the word “Millah” since its all-encompassing of the lifestyle, path, etc. of disbelievers.

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Eagle’s response:

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It still appears to me that you really don’t have a true understanding of how we, as Christians, think.

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You said: “If you were someone like me, you would either hate me and respect me at the same time, or hate me and wouldn’t respect me. Why? Because I will show open disavowal to you and will continue to do so, even if you are annoyed by it, until you become Muslim.

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A true Christian, hate sin, but loves the sinner. Which means, what it says. A Christian should always speak with love, (though I have trouble with that myself sometimes), regardless of what is spoken too them. Most true Christians, know this and try to live by the words of Christ, we are not perfect, we are forgiven.

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So, I don’t hate you, or disrespect you. I understand that you think your way is the only way. I feel the same way about Christ. I think one of the main differences, between you and I, are how we choose to share our faith. And I stand by what I said above. Tell me why you think that is wrong. BTW, I am not claiming to be an expert on Islam, I am merely trying to understand.

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You asked if I supported the Mujaahideen against my own people, and do I wish for the Mujaahideen’s victory? I already answered that….

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I would NEVER support anyone or anything that would cause one to change their faith by force, or to discriminate against someone because of their faith. That includes, anyone who tried to force YOU to change your faith, or discriminated against you because of it.

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As far as “Millah” There are many different ways of life, and most of them, I don’t subscribe to either. As any person of faith, we lead our life based on our understanding of the scripture. But we don’t force our belief on others, or hate them if they don’t walk and talk the way we do. (see statement above)

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I believe that faith, is a personal journey, that we should all be free to take, or not, if that is someones wish, that is why God has given us free will.

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I think God wants us to come to Him out of love, not out of fear. Do you believe this??

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Reject hate, embrace love. Bring out the best in Islam by showing your compassion, gratitude and forgiveness. What do you see in this statement that is wrong??

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This is the best way to bring others to wanting to participate in any religion. Personally, I became a Christian based on the joy I saw in others lives, I wanted that joy.

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Why do you share your faith?? Is it out of love?? Do you share your faith based on the fact that you love the person you are sharing with, and want them to go to Heaven with you?? Do you believe, that God is longsuffering, not wishing that any should perish??

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Be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God has forgiven you. Do you believe this statement??

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(after post was erased 3 times, I re-posted the entire comment and added the following)

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If you feel that I have disrespected you in anyway, please forgive me, that is not my intent. I have read everything you have written in an attempt to understand your point of view and in an attempt for you to see mine. Is that not the reason you have comment sections?? I really do want you to answer my questions sincerely. Please don’t just erase it.

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Muslim response:

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Look eagle,
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You are wasting your time. The simple answer to your above statements is:

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We will continue to show open disavowal and enmity to you and your people until you become Muslim because we believe that you, the disbeliever, are the people of hellfire (unless if you become Muslim) and so we will treat you like such. And if you become Muslim, then you will become one of us and we will show mercy, compassion, and love for you and you will be a part of the universal brotherhood.

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If you are inquiring as to us dealing justly with you, the answer is yes and we will deal with you justly.

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If you are inquiring as to us being nice with you, the answer is we are not forbidden from acting nice with you, and nor are we forbidden from acting harsh with you. You are a disbeliever and we actually believe it. That’s the difference between us and you. You people don’t follow your Religion whereas we try to follow it to the teeth. A disbeliever has an evil presence because of their disbelief.

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Your “Millah” is what you follow and whatever it is that you follow, we reject it because it is not Islam.

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You didn’t answer my question about the Mujaahideen. Do you support them? If not, then stop wasting your time because we support them, even if you hate it.

You wrote,

“I think God wants us to come to Him out of love, not out of fear. Do you believe this??”

Allah will accept their Islam as long as he/she accepts Islam. It doesn’t matter if they were brought into Islam harshly or softly. As long as they accept it by the heart, Allah accepts it.

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And nobody is forcing you to change your faith. But we do have a concern regarding your disbelief and that is why we expose it. And blasphemy only deserves harshness.

You wrote,

“Reject hate, embrace love. Bring out the best in Islam by showing your compassion, gratitude and forgiveness. What do you see in this statement that is wrong??”

It is wrong because Islam is balanced with hatred and love whereas you people rejected hatred. Since you rejected hatred, then it means you people love what your god hates; and what does your god hate?

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I wonder if you’ll even admit if he hates anything.

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If not, then we’ll assume that he loves prostitution, adultery, rape, alcohol, pornography, murder, oppression, cheating, stealing, and arrogance.

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And we are assuming that your god doesn’t reject this (since he has no hatred for this evil) because “Christianity is all about love,” right?

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That’s why your religion has no balance. You people are too afraid to speak about hatred. You people can’t even hate what god hates because your cowardice has taken over your steadfastness. You are not ready to face trials and tribulations for loving what god loves and hating what god hates, and showing it openly. This goes for the vast majority of Christians.

You wrote,

“Why do you share your faith?? Is it out of love?? Do you share your faith based on the fact that you love the person you are sharing with and want them to go to Heaven with you?? Do you believe, that God is longsuffering, not wishing that any should perish??”

We share our faith not to convert people like your missionaries. Rather, we share our faith to inform the people of the only truth. And not only do we simply just tell them what Islam is, but we establish it in their locality so they can see the truth working in front of their eyes.

Indeed, we do have a concern for all disbelievers because when they die upon their disbelief, we see it as a tragedy (except in the battlefield) since their soul would be lost in the punishment of the hellfire and we might have had the ability of telling them about Islam. Even at their very last breaths, we wish to tell them: “Say, “There is no deity worthy of worship except Allah and Muhammad is His final Messenger.”

You wrote,

“Be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God has forgiven you. Do you believe this statement??”

No because Allah will never forgive Shirk as long as one is practicing it, and therefore, we will never forgive them nor show them a soft heart. And by the way, Allah forgives all other sins (such as adultery, theft, murder, oppression etc.) but He will never forgive Shirk as long as one dies upon it. Muse over this.

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The real discussion here is why aren’t you Muslim?

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My response to him:

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You said,:

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“What does your god hate?
I wonder if you’ll even admit if he hates anything.
If not, then we’ll assume that he loves prostitution, adultery, rape, alcohol, pornography, murder, oppression, cheating, stealing, and arrogance.’

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The God I worship, hates sin, and probably it is the same sin that your God hates. The main difference is that we try to live by the words of Christ and it is not our place to judge.

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There is a story in the Bible about a woman who was about to be stoned for adultery. Jesus said to the people that were about to do the stoning, “He who is without sin, cast the first stone.” The people left. Jesus said to the woman, “Where are your accusers? Neither do I condemn you, go and sin no more.”

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Although we have our sins forgiven, it does not mean that we are allowed to go out and keep doing the things we were doing before we were saved. The Bible speaks against this.

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Jesus said,: “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.”

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We believe,

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JUDGE not, that you be not judged.
“For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you.
“And why do you look at the speck in your brother’s eye, but do not consider the plank in your own eye?
“Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me remove the speck from your eye’; and look, a plank is in your own eye?
“Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.

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You should learn more about what Christians believe, I am trying to learn more of what Muslims believe. You might find that in some areas we are a lot alike. We like you, have a lot of people who claim to be Christians, but do not act like one.

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We are made right in God’s sight when we trust in Jesus Christ to take away our sins. And we all can be saved in this same way, no matter who we are or what we have done.
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For all have sinned; all fall short of God’s glorious standard.

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Yet now God in his gracious kindness declares us not guilty. He has done this through Christ Jesus, who has freed us by taking away our sins. For God sent Jesus to take the punishment for our sins and to satisfy God’s anger against us. We are made right with God when we believe that Jesus shed his blood, sacrificing his life for us.

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Can we boast, then, that we have done anything to be accepted by God? No, because our acquittal is not based on our good deeds. It is based on our faith.
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Faith eliminates the pride of human effort, because faith is not a work that we do. Faith exalts what God has done, not what people do. Faith admits that we cannot keep the Law, or measure up to God’s standard–we need help. Faith is based on our relationship with God, not our performance for God.

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Well then, if we emphasize faith, does this mean that we can forget about the law? Of course not! In fact, only when we have faith do we truly fulfill the law.

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Paul said, (1 Cor. 4: 3-5) ” I care very little if I am judged by you or by any human court; indeed, I do not even judge myself.
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My conscience is clear, but that does not make me innocent. It is the Lord who judges me.

Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait till the Lord comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of men’s hearts. At that time each will receive his praise from God.”

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(vs12) We work hard with our own hands. When we are cursed, we bless; when we are persecuted, we endure it;

when we are slandered, we answer kindly. Up to this moment we have become the scum of the earth, the refuse of the world.

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Therefore I urge you to imitate me.”

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What a better example to follow?? And as I have already said, Jesus spoke on how to treat people who persecute us because of our faith. You asked me why aren’t I a Muslim. You have not shown me a reason to become a Muslim. I want joy in my life, peace and love and to be able to sing and raise my hands in praise and joy when worshiping God.

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I worship a God that I KNOW loves me. I share my faith because I want others to feel the joy that I feel. When I see Muslims worshiping in the Mosques, I never see them joyfully praising God, or singing to the Lord. Maybe I missed something. Please tell me if I have. Do you sing praises to the Lord? I never see anyone smiling while worshiping.

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You keep asking about the Mujaahideen. And if I support them and I keep answering… I would NEVER support anyone or anything that would cause one to change their faith by force, or to discriminate against someone because of their faith. That includes, anyone who tried to force YOU to change your faith, OR discriminated against you because of it.

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It is just as wrong when you try and do that to Christians, as if Christians did that to you. How is it that you ignore this fact?? I may not agree with you in what, or how you worship. But it is not my place to force you to change.

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Correct me if I am wrong, but as I understand it, you want to create a Taliban style government world wide. Is that true?? If so, how is that any different than if we tried to force our views on you??

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(end of comments)

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These comments were continually erased, no matter how many times I posted them (thank goodness for the copy/paste option. I saved everything into a draft file in my email, in case you are wondering, because they have erased my comments before). I then sent the following comment, knowing it would be read, before it was erased.

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If you are righteous in your thoughts and writings then you should not fear what the kufar has to say. If a person is not using foul language, then why would you erase what they had to say?? Are you afraid that they might influence a Muslim coming to your website?? Surely you don’t think that your opinion is so weak that it cannot stand up to remarks by someone with a differing view.

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Since you keep erasing my comments, I am left with only one thought. You are afraid of others seeing my response. You are afraid that my words might influence another Muslim. You are not as righteous as you would have others believe. Your words are false. You lie not only to yourself but to others. If this was not true, you wouldn’t be afraid of my comments.

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You are afraid, even in this old post that nobody comes too any more. What is it that causes you to erase my post?? Please answer that for me. (end of comment)

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If you are a Muslim, Ask yourself a question, Why erase those comments?? So you tell me, IF they are so righteous, why erase my comments?? That question goes out to the radicals as well.

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Tell me if you see anything offensive in those comments.