Anti-al Qaeda Base Envisioned

Here is the second post which is connected to the last one. Again, I found this on my friends blog, thank you Stefan. It is an article from The Washington Times, the link for this story is below.  As always any thing in ((and)) is my comment on the subject. One other thing I want to say, completely off topic. I had this post already in the line up to put up. I had hoped to do some research over the last couple of days since this time of year finds most of us extremely busy until after New Year’s Day. The series I am writing on takes a lot of research to get it right and cover everything. Anyway, on Saturday I started coming down with something, now its a full on head cold. The problem is, if it goes to my lungs, I could be in serious trouble. I have a preexisting lung problem and any other insult could not only cause me to have to go into the hospital, but it could kill me.

I’m telling you all this for two reasons; Number 1 is, I will do what I can with my blogs, but you know what its like when you have a head cold or don’t feel well. 2 if I disappear for a week or so, it could be I am in the hospital, so just so you know, its not because I am quiting the blog. 

Now, on with today’s post:

   

Article published Sep 26, 2007
an article from www.washingtontimes.com

By Willis Witter

Exiled Egyptian cleric Ahmed Subhy Mansour, whose teachings have earned him dozens of death “fatwas” from fellow Muslim clerics, uses the English translation for al Qaeda — meaning “the base” — to describe a plan to defeat Osama bin Laden and other terrorists, who he says have seized control of Islam.”Suppose you have here [in the United States] a base to counter al Qaeda in the war of ideas?” Sheik Mansour asked during a recent luncheon at The Washington Times.

“You could convince a large number — millions of silent Muslims. We can convince them very easily that the real enemy is not the United States. It is not Israel. The real enemy is the dictators in the Muslim world and the culture of the Wahhabis and Muslim Brotherhood,” he said, referring to the dominant arbiters of Islamic orthodoxy in Saudi Arabia and Egypt respectively.

Sheik Mansour is the founder of a small Egyptian sect that is neither Sunni nor Shi”ite. They call themselves Quranists because they believe that the Koran represents the single authentic scripture of Islam. They especially anger Sunni Muslims by rejecting the Hadith and Sunna, purported sayings and traditions of the prophet Muhammad.

“Killing people just because they are not Muslims, they have a Hadith for this. To kill a Muslim like me after accusing him to be an ‘apostate,” they have a Hadith for this. To persecute the Jews, they have a Hadith for this.“All this is garbage. It has nothing to do with Islam. It contradicts more than one-fourth of the Koranic verses,” Sheik Mansour said. ((one-fouth Wow!))A former professor of Islamic history at Al-Azhar University in Cairo, he was expelled in 1987 as the Muslim equivalent of a “heretic” and was briefly imprisoned by Egyptian authorities. After subsequent waves of persecution, he finally fled Egypt just months after the September 11, 2001, attacks and received political asylum in the United States the next year.

More recently, in May and June, Egyptian authorities arrested five leaders of the movement, including Sheik Mansour“s brother, on charges of “insulting Islam” and began investigations of 15 others, with the intent, he said, to destroy the entire movement.

From exile in the United States, he continues to attack the Islam of bin Laden and the Wahhabi Islam of Saudi Arabia that gave birth to bin Laden”s beliefs. Sheik Mansour also attacks the Islamist vision of Egypt”s Muslim Brotherhood, a group that rejects violence but shares the goal of a theocratic nationhood under Shariah, or Islamic law.

Though illegal in Egypt, the Brotherhood is allowed to operate openly in an uneasy truce with the government. Police round up its members whenever it delves too publicly in politics — for example, by holding anti-government demonstrations. But the Brotherhood”s interpretation of Shariah provides a benchmark for Egyptian law, which is based primarily on Shariah.

“We are not against the people. We are against this culture that will produce more and more generations of fanaticism. We go to the core of this culture and prove that it contradicts the Koran,” Sheik Mansour said.

“Few Americans understand that the battle against terrorism is a war of ideas,” Sheik Mansour said. “It is a war that is very different from the military in its tactics, its strategy and its weapons.

“Suicide bombings are just one aspect of this war. They brainwash young men to blow themselves up, to kill randomly. Our mission is to convince him, to undeceive them, to convince them that what he is doing is against Islam. He will lose his life and lose his afterlife as well.”Sheik Mansour claims about 10,000 followers in Egypt who accept his teachings, many of whom are part of his extended family.“We find Islam has the same values as the West: freedom, unlimited freedom of speech, justice, equality, loving, humanity, tolerance, mercy, everything. This is our version of Islam, and we argue that this is the core of Islam according to the Koran.”  ((Somebody tell me why people like these are so feared by the powers that be in Muslim nations??))

He and his sons operate the Quranic Center in Northern Virginia, which includes an elaborate Internet site in Arabic and English. On its Web site at www.ahlalquran.com, the organization is republishing dozens of Sheik Mansour“s books and hundreds of articles he has written over the years.  ((the english version http://www.ahl-alquran.com/English/main.php))

The campaign is not without risk. One can find a sampling of fatwas, or edicts by other Muslim scholars against the Quranists, including one saying, “We have issued our commands to the soldiers of God to worship God by pouring out their blood and burning their homes.”  ((Those of you who live in the West, be grateful for your religious freedom.))

Sheik Mansour said in response: “I do not care about my safety, but I do care about my persecuted people in Egypt.”

Paul Marshall, a senior fellow at the Hudson Institute”s Institute of Religious Freedom, said arrests of the Quranists reflect an attempt by Egypt”s government to demonstrate its loyalty to Islam to fend off challenges from even more extreme Islamists who want to impose much harsher restrictions on the Arab world”s most populous nation.

“These arrests are part of the Egyptian government’s double game in which it imprisons members of the Muslim Brotherhood when the latter appear to become too powerful, while simultaneously trying to appear Islamic itself and blunt the Brotherhood’s appeal by cracking down on religious reformers, who are very often also democracy activists,” Mr. Marshall wrote in a recent edition of the Weekly Standard.

The arrests of the Quranists received a brief mention in the latest annual report on International Religious Freedom by the State Department, which noted the arrests of five Quranists and defined the group as “a small group of Muslims who rely largely if not exclusively on the Qur’an as authoritative for Islam, to the exclusion of the prophetic traditions [Hadith] and other sources of Islamic law.”

One detainee told an Egyptian human rights investigator that he was beaten and threatened with rape by one interrogator, the State Department report says.  ((This isn’t the first time I’ve heard of this kind of punishment and interrogation torture.  So here we have a man being persecuted, because he is considered a heretic towards Islam, and we have some Muslims, torturing him and others… Please somebody tell me how one man raping another, or if a man rapes a woman … how ‘Islamic’ is that??  How is torture in any form Islamic??)) 

Since arriving in the states, Sheik Mansour has held a number of academic posts. In 2002, he was a Reagan-Fascell Fellow at the National Endowment for Democracy in Washington, where he wrote on the roots of democracy in Islam.

The next year, he received a visiting fellowship at Harvard Law School’s Human Rights Program.

He also briefly met Karen P. Hughes, the undersecretary of state for public diplomacy, last year in the office of Rep. Frank R. Wolf, Virginia Republican.The meeting, Sheik Mansour said, lasted for 10 minutes, barely enough for polite introductions.

“I said: ‘Please, let me sit down with you for more time. I have big plan,” ” he recalled. But there was no follow-up.

“We need official American help for our arrested people in Egypt,” he said. “We don”t want money. We are talking about releasing our arrested people, saving the lives of scholars, bringing them to the U.S., granting them asylum to help establish this new base for moderate Islam.”

http://www.washingtontimes.com/article/20070926/FOREIGN/109260030/1003

No Compulsion…As Long As You Believe Like Me

As we are going into Thanksgiving and I am very busy during this time of the year; I was afraid I wouldn’t be able to get at least 3 posts out this week. I won’t be putting up one on the topic I am currently working on however I found this on my friends blog.  We will get back to the other series the first of the week (hopefully).  But this post and the next one is just as informative and interesting as the series we are in, so I really want everyone to read it and the next one.

This article is written by Ahmed Mansour, and tells you some of the beliefs of these people who are being persecuted for not believing the same way as the powers that be.  I am printing it in it’s entirety here, but you can also find it here. Again, thank you Stefan for printing great stuff that I can share with others. I thought it was very interesting and worthwhile reading for all. Since I have 5 blogs, what better way to get this out there.  There is a part 2 to this which I will put up by Friday or Saturday.  Actually I think this post should be the second part, but I am putting it up first.

Again remember there is no compulsion in Islam… as long as you worship and/or believe the way your told. Anything else is subject to discrimination, jail, or death. Even if, or rather, especially if, you are a Muslim in a Muslim nation. In the early 1990’s, I was invited by the Egyptian association for religious brotherhood to lecture in a church in Cairo to Muslims and Christians about tolerance. I was warned that there was a suspicious bearded man waiting for me in front of the church.We talked. He told me that he had spent two months trying to meet me. He told me that he had been a member of secret fanatic organization and was assigned to rebut my discourse, but that my words had changed his and his family’s life. He asked me to join my weekly Friday prayer meeting at my home, and if possible bring his family.

After a month they became Quranists.

Who are the Quranists?

The Quranists are intellectual Muslims who believe in Islam as the religion of freedom, democracy, tolerance, justice, peace and human rights. They fight the terrorists’ culture from within Islam, using Quran as the only source of legislation.

Why they are persecuted?

The Quranic movement started in 1979 by sincere Muslim scholars who specialized in the contradiction between the true Islam and the Culture of Muslims. Therefore they were victimized by terrorists and fanatic scholars.
Being activists for human rights and democracy, and calling for peaceful reform from within Islam, the Quranists are also victimized by the Egyptian regime.

The Egyptian regime and Muslim Brothers are against each other but are usually united against Quranists.

Brief overview of the persecution of Quranists:

The Quranists have suffered three waves of arrest; in 1987, 2000-2001, and finally the third wave starting May 28th, 2007, when five of the Quranists were arrested, tortured for 37 days, interrogated, and suffered ridiculous accusations about their faith and prayers.

Their families were also persecuted in Egypt. Some moved to Upper Egypt and some stayed indoors. The Muslim Brothers used mosques, media and the education system, as well as their control of the streets to try to tarnish the Quranists as ardent enemies of Islam.

After the Egyptian regime officially accused the Quranists of insulting Islam, fanatics used the accusation to call for the Quranists’ death.

The five Quranists have been released in October 6, 2007, after more than four months in prison. Because of torture, my brother Abdellateef had to undergo surgery in his ear. Amr Tharwat needed surgery on his leg, while Ahmed Dahmash has damage in his backbone. The persecution continues. Every week, they must go to the same prison to be interrogated and humiliated by the security services. Any time they may be arrested and tortured again. They are ordered to pray the weekly Friday prayer in fanatic mosques, and are not allowed to contact me, or to write in our site.

In this way he Egyptian regime is seeking to make an example for the rest and keep the Quranists from continuing their reform movement.

Persecution in some detail:

As an assistant professor at Al-Azhar University, the oldest and most famous religious university in the Sunni Muslim world, I wrote five books in 1985 to reform Sunni religious life.. I was accused of being against Islam because I denied the intercession of the prophet Muhammad in the day of judgment, deny his infallibility, and deny that he is the best and the master of all the prophets. In March 1987, I was fired.In November 1987, I was arrested, along with 24 of my followers, and accused of being a denier of the Sunna, the sayings and the deeds of the prophet Muhammad. The government claimed that my writing were a call for Muslims to abandon Islam. After two months I was released.

To save my life, I escaped to the United States. When I returned to Egypt in October 1988 I was again arrested, and released after two days on the condition that I not defend myself whenever the fanatics of Al Azhar attacked me. In the period 1988-1995, I was attacked so severely, and received death threats so that I asked for court protection. From January 1996 until June 2000 I worked at the Ibn Khaldun Center as a Muslim scholar and moderator of the Center’s weekly forum. The Center is run by Dr. Saad Eddin Ibrahim, the famous sociologist, and leader of the movement for human rights, civil society and liberal culture in the Arab world. As an American citizen and part-time counselor of President Mubarak, Dr. Ibrahim has had great influence in Egypt in the 1990s.

My life was in real danger after I wrote a book as a project for the Center on reforming the Egyptian education system to make it more tolerant. I was severely attacked in the Egyptian parliament.

As a result of problems between Dr. Ibrahim and President Mubarak, Dr. Ibrahim was arrested in June 2000 and the Center shut down. Since I was in serious danger, and some of my relatives had been arrested, I contacted and explained the situation to officials in the US embassy.

The security service kept us constantly in a state of terror. They arrested more members of my family in my village. Finally they arrested some of my friends who used to attend my weekly prayer at home. One told me that he expected them to arrest both of us along with more of my relatives. He said they would as usual force my friends to make false accusations about me and so I fled to the US on October, 15, 2001. (This is reviewed in the U. S Department of State’s 2002 International Religious Freedom Report)

Since coming to the U.S, I have found the same Wahabi influence, and founded the International Quranic Center, with a website, to organize Quranists.

So, we suffer the third wave of arrest.

For more details:

http://www.ahl-alquran.com/English/show_article.php?main_id=126

http://www.ahl-alquran.com/arabic/show_article.php?main_id=2048 

How could the Quranists help the U.S in this war of ideas against the terrorists?

The war against terrorism is 90% war of ideas. This intellectual war has its unique aspects and rules. The Quranists are an Islamic group capable of defending the U.S in this ideological war against terrorism. Al Qaeda and all the terrorist organizations have real power in the war of ideas.

But they cannot debate us with logic and evidence, so they resort to brute force, with government accomplices. So we are jailed, tortured, driven from out homes and made refugees in other countries. They issue fatwas calling for our death; thus proving once more that the Wahabi ideology cannot stand on its own feet, but requires the power of authorities to force it on people.

The only way to confront and defeat Wahabis is by using our ways and methods. We are Muslims, sincere about our faith and very much attached to and adhered to the Quran, and for the past thirty years, we never wavered, never retreated, we stood alone and stood firm, and despite the persecution and the lack of means, we managed to succeed in producing a genuine change in the Islamic interpretation and practices among many Muslims.

In conclusion, despite many successes, we are still victims of the Wahabi ideology and persecution of a tyrannical regime in Egypt on one hand, and a total neglect and disregard from the American institutions on the other hand.

http://www.ahl-alquran.com/English/show_article.php?main_id=2614

See :

Egyptian Human Rights Activist Saad Eddin Ibrahim Defies Threats, Arrests to Challenge U.S.-Backed Mubarak Government

And my next post, if you just can’t wait.  Or rather my copy/paste of Stefan’s post lol.  Oh well, it is a holiday after all. 

Pre-Dajjal

Pre-Dajjal magnify

  

For the record, since this is a holiday week, I may not get out as many posts, at least on the current series I am working on.  I will do my best to try and get out one on Mon, Wens., and Friday, but I’m not making any promises.  From here to the first of the year is normally very busy for me.  

I already started on posts about Dajjal or Islamic anti-Christ, but I missed some of the ‘signs’ of Dajjal’s appearance. So here it is.In my last post, I gave many descriptions of Dajjal.  I also told of a 3 year drought, that drought is supposed to happen, BEFORE Dajjal, so it should have been here, not in that other post. Evidently there will be 30 Dajjals before the main Dajjal. Below are the writings concerning the 30. 

These are from Ibn Kathir. 

Jabir ibn Samurah said, “I heard the Prophet say, ‘Just before the Hour there will be many liars.'” Jabir said, “Be on your guard against them.” (Muslim).

Jabir said, “I heard the Prophet say, ‘Just before the Hour there will be many liars; among them is the one in al-Yamamah, the ‘Ansi in San’a’, the one in Himyar, and the Dajjal. This will be the greatest fitnah (trial).”’ (Ahmad.)

Abu Hurayrah said, “The Prophet said, “The Hour will not come … until nearly 30 “dajjals” (liars) appear, each one claiming to be a messenger from Allah.'” (Bukhari Muslim.)

Abu Hurayrah said, “The Prophet said, ‘The Hour will not come until 30 “dajjals” appear, each of them claiming to be a messenger from Allah, wealth increases, tribulations appear and al-Harj increases.'” Someone asked, ‘What is al-Harj?’ He said, ‘Killing, killing.’ (Ahmad.)

Abu Hurayrah said, “The Prophet said, ‘The Hour will not come until 30 “dajjals” appear, all of them lying about Allah and His Messenger.” (Abu Dawud.)

Abu Hurayrah said, “The Prophet said, ‘Just before the Hour, there will be 30 “dajjals”, each of whom will say, I am a Prophet.'” (Ahmad.)

Abu Hurayrah said, “The Prophet said, ‘There will be “dajjals” and liars among my Ummah. They will tell you something new, which neither you nor your forefathers have heard. Be on your guard against them, and do not let them lead you astray.'” (Ahmad.)

Thawban said, “The Prophet said, ‘There will be 30 liars among my Ummah. Each one will claim that he is a prophet; but I am the last of the Prophets (Seal of the Prophets), and there will be no Prophet after me.'” (Ahmad.)

The Prophet said, “Verily before the Day of Resurrection there will appear the Dajjal, and 30 or more liars.” (Ahmad.)

Ibn ‘Umar said, “I heard the Prophet say, ‘Among my Ummah there will be more than 70 callers, each of whom will be calling people to Hell-fire. If I wished, I could tell you their names and tribes.'”Abu Bakrah said, “The people spoke a great deal against Musaylimah before the Prophet said anything about him. Then the Prophet got up to give a speech and said: ‘…as for this man about whom you have spoken so much – he is one of the 30 liars who will appear before the Hour, and there is no town which will not feel the fear of the Antichrist.'” (Ahmad.)

In another version of this report, the Prophet said, “He is one of the 30 liars who will appear before the Dajjal. There is no town which will escape the fear of the Djjal, apart from Madinah. At that time there will be two angels at every entrance of Madinah, warding off the fear of the Antichrist.”

Anas ibn Malik said, “The Prophet said, ‘The time of the Dajjal will be years of confusion. People will believe a liar, and disbelieve one who tells the truth. People will distrust one who is trustworthy, and trust one who is treacherous; and the Ruwaybidah will have a say.’ Someone asked, ‘Who are the Ruwaybidah?’ He said, ‘Those who rebel against Allah and will have a say in general affairs.'” (Ahmad.)

I have some questions for our Muslim readers, in the Muslim Hadith 7040 it says: “Abu Huraira reported Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: Hasten in performing these good deeds (before these) six things (happen): (the appearance) of tribe Dijjal, the smoke, the beast of the earth, the rising of the sun from the west, the general turmoil (leadina to large-scale massacre) and death of masses and individuals.”

I assume the “large-scale massacre” will be the Sufyaani which we have already talked about, but then again, it is my understanding that only Shia believe that.  So what do you think the “large-scale massacre” will be?  I am assuming that the “beast of the earth” is Dajjal himself, please tell me if I’m wrong.  I also assume the tribe of Dajjal is speaking of the followers of Dajjal.  I know that not everyone believes the same way and I will be putting up what others say about some of those questions, what is your opinion??

I asked a Muslim friend (thank you Stefan), what “the smoke” was; And his opinion on, “the sun rising from the West”, his answers are below.  You can find this in the comment section of this post.  The post itself is on Dajjal so you may find it interesting as well.  The links to ‘openburhan.net’, are very informative, basically it gives a list of different translations to each verse in the Quran.  It even breaks down the root of certain words.  You should check it out.  That’s one of the things I like about Stefan, he spells out everything he says and points out why he feels what he feels.  (Again, I encourage you to add ‘Truth Booth’ to your blogroll/links and or bookmarks) (Did I tell you that I admire his thinking?? ) (I know, I’m easily amused

Eagle,

The word (dukhanun) Smoke appears twice in the Quran

http://www.openburhan.net/ob.php?root=%D8%AF%D8%AE%D9%86%0D 

Once when describing the beginning

Then He settled to the sky, while it was still smoke, and He said to it, and to the Earth: “Come willingly or unwillingly.” They said: “We come willingly.” (41:11)

http://www.openburhan.net/ob.php?sid=41&vid=11

And the other when describing the ending

Therefore, watch for the day when the sky will bring a visible smoke. (44:10)

http://www.openburhan.net/ob.php?sid=44&vid=10

“sun raising in the west”

I can’t find anything in the Quran concerning the above statement, however many Muslims believe that its proven by the Quran.

Rising of the Sun from the West

The rising of the sun from the west is also a major sign of Qiyamah proven by the Quran and Sunnah.
Allah says in the Qur’an,

“The day when some signs of your Lord will come, no good will it do to a person to believe then, if he believed not before, nor earned good (by performing deeds of righteousness) through his faith.” (Surah Al-An’aam) (6:158)

http://www.openburhan.net/ob.php?sid=6&vid=158

The verse is referring to the rising of the sun from the west, as is the opinion of the majority of the commentators. (Tabari/Ibne Kathir)

Imam Tabari, after mentioning the different opinions of the commentators writes, “The most correct opinion in regards to the meaning of this verse is that what is apparent from the reports narrated from the Prophet that he said, “(lmaan will be of no benefit) when the sun rises from the west.” (Tabari)

Abu Huraira reported that the Holy Prophet said, “Hasten to do good deeds before six (things happen) :Rising of the sun from the west.” (Mishkat)

http://www.al-qiyamah.org/_/satanic_signs_of_qiyamah_4.htm

(6:158) has nothing to say concerning the “Rising of the Sun from the West”.

And sometimes the following verses are misinterpreted.

Some Islamic interpreters have even boldly declared that the moon will crash into the sun on this Day of Judgment.

يَسْـئَلُ أَيَّانَ يَوْمُ الْقِيَامَةِ

He asks: “When is the Day of Resurrection?” (75:6)

http://www.openburhan.net/ob.php?sid=75&vid=6

فَإِذَا بَرِقَ الْبَصَرُ

So, when the sight is dazzled. (75:7)

http://www.openburhan.net/ob.php?sid=75&vid=7

وَخَسَفَ الْقَمَرُ

And the moon is eclipsed. (75:8)

http://www.openburhan.net/ob.php?sid=75&vid=8

وَجُمِعَ الشَّمْسُ وَالْقَمَرُ

And the sun and moon are joined together. (75:9)

http://www.openburhan.net/ob.php?sid=75&vid=9

The sight is dazzled when there is a total solar eclipse and it normally lasts a few minutes. Sight may also be dazzled by a lack, not abundance, of light as is the case here. The Quran is clearly referring to a solar eclipse, a natural phenomenon beyond human manipulation.

The Sun and Moon joining together can be due to their appearance on the same straight line of sight, and not as a dramatically apocalyptic sign as I have previously said (here) at your blog

And its not related to “The splitting of the Moon” which is another sign.

Peace D

  

If there are any other Muslim readers who have different answers please add them to the comment area.  I will post them on my other blogs as well, I have many non-Muslim readers scattered about who are interested in your thoughts.  In my research I did see some Muslims commenting on what they thought “the sun rising in the West” means to them, and I will attempt to find that and post it later.   

http://www.islamworld.net/hour/Five.txt

More On Different Views Among Muslims Or The Case For Quran Only

More On The Differing Views Of Muslims magnify

  

I know we are in the middle of a series, but I am not prepared for my next post just yet.  I have been saving this one for a while now, even though I wanted to put it up some time ago.  As we have seen over this series there are many different views amongst Muslims.  Between Shia and Sunni, they don’t even have the same Hadiths, which in fact brings me to this post.  There are many questions to my Muslim friends and this post is primarily for them, but everyone should find it informative and interesting.     

This post is dedicated to at least two people whom I have the pleasure of calling friends.  As I have said many times, not every Muslim believes the same way.  There are some who believe in using only the Quran, and that is what this post is about.  I hope you will find it as fascinating as I did, whether you be Christian or Muslim.  I would ask Muslims to read and consider what they have to say, it makes a lot of sense.  

There is another group of Muslims who only look to the Quran called Rashadiites or those who believe in whatever  Rashad Khalifa has to say.  According to what I have been told, they base all their beliefs on what one mans ‘interpretation’ of the original Quran Arabic, and they even leave out some verses (at least that’s the way I understand it). Knowing some of their belief, even I, who doesn’t know much, think its a stretch.  You can read more about it/them here and here.  That is not what I am referring to here, not all Muslims who believe in using only the Quran are Rashadiites.

I will be giving you Stefan’s blog address later in this post, but first let me put in my two cents worth.  One of his most recent posts, was titled, “Critical Thinking A Right (and duty) Of All Muslims”.  I have to agree with him, as it is something that is taught in Christianity as well.  As I have stated before, you must study the scriptures for yourself, if you don’t and merely believe whatever is told to you; You could end up in some death cult like Jim Jones.  

We have gone over many things when talking about Islam and their prophecy.  One of the interesting things is that neither the Mahdi nor Dajjal is mentioned in the Quran, though Gog and Magog is.  We discussed Sufyaani, and when looking at that, it appears that the fight was going to be between Shia and Sunni’s.  My concern is those who want to rush what they see as prophecy, whether it is or not, be it Christian or Muslim.  Some Sunni’s believe that the Shiite Mahdi, is actually Dajjal.  Can you see where I am going here??

I have seen numerous Muslims attack Judaism and Christianity based on those religions placing higher value on their priest’s than on God.  But by the same token, I have seen that the other way around too.  Personally I think that when things get out of balance you need to get back to basics.  When you know that different sects believe differently only because of the Hadiths, well then I have some questions of my own, and I’m not even Muslim.  Did you know that there are Hadiths saying that Muhammad forbid people from writing down what he did??  I didn’t until recently.  What the Hadiths are, is basically that, the words and deeds of Muhammad’s life.

Among the books of hadith regarded as ‘Sahih’ (verified to be authentic), we read the following:

Abi Said Al-Khudary said that the prophet said : “Do not write down anything from me except the Quran.”

[Sahih Muslim Part 18, page 229, also Ahmed, Vol. 1, Page 171]

Abu huraira said that the prophet said, “The ‘Ummam’ (nations/peoples) that preceded you have gone astray when they wrote books and upheld them besides God’s scripture”.

(Ahmed Ibn Hanbal).

The same message is documented in other Islamic references of repute:

Abu Huraira said : The messenger of God came to us while we were writing his sayings and said: “What is it you are writing?” we said “sayings (hadith) we hear from you messenger of God” he said, “A book other than God’s book?” then Abu Huraira said, “so we gathered what we had written and burnt it all”.

(Taqyeed Al-Ilm, by Al-Khateeb Al-Baghdady) also (Oloom Al-Hadith, by Ibn Salah).

I asked my friend about this and how so many can ignore it, when so many others follow nothing but the Hadiths.  His answer was this;

“according to most scholars and researchers, this hadith was specific to the time when the Qur’an was still being written. The reason behind this command was to prevent any risk of confusing the Qur’an with Hadith. However, once the revelation was completed and it was certain that no more verses were going to be descended, it was permissible; and even an obligation to write down the Hadith to preserve it throughout time, because, had the memorizers of the Hadith passed away before writing it down, the Hadiths could have disappeared.”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadith#Controversy

Surah 6

The majority of those on Earth they will lead you (Muhammad) astray because they follow conjecture and what they have found their fathers doing!

“What if their fathers did not understand anything and were not guided ?”

“Shall I seek other than God as a judge when He has sent down to you this Scripture fully detailed?” Those to whom We have given the Scripture know it is sent down from your Lord with truth; so do not be of those who have doubt. (6:114)

And the word of your Lord has been completed with truth and justice; there is no changing His words. He is the Hearer, the Knower. (6:115)

And if you obey the majority of those on Earth they will lead you astray; that is because they follow conjecture, and that is because they only guess. (6:116)

http://www.openburhan.net/ob.php?sid=6&vid=114
http://www.openburhan.net/ob.php?sid=6&vid=115
http://www.openburhan.net/ob.php?sid=6&vid=116

Those who have set up partners will Say: “If God wished, we would not have set up partners, nor would have our fathers, nor would we have forbidden anything.” Those before them lied in the same way, until they tasted Our might. Say: “Do you have any knowledge to bring out to us? You only follow conjecture, you only guess.” (6:148)

http://www.openburhan.net/ob.php?sid=6&vid=148

“No, we will follow what we found our fathers doing.”

It seems to me that so many Muslims are following the footsteps of their fathers without understanding, they are no better than their forefathers and its true and normal according to the Quran to follow others rather than God.

And if they are told: “Follow what God has sent down,” they Say: “No, we will follow what we found our fathers doing!” What if their fathers did not understand anything and were not guided? (2:170)

http://www.openburhan.net/ob.php?sid=2&vid=170

And if they are told: “Follow that which God has sent down.” They Say: “No, we will follow what we found our fathers doing.” What if the devil had been leading them to the agony of Hell? (31:21)

http://www.openburhan.net/ob.php?sid=31&vid=21

two ??

What if their fathers did not understand anything and were not guided?

What if the devil had been leading them to the agony of Hell?

Another comment by Stefan my friend on my WordPress blog, you can see where he is answering someone elses questions;

You have to understand that the verses of the Quran were used to command Mohamed and the Believers all the time, I mean when its time of peace and when its time of war. Every verse of the Quran is related to a certain specific historical incident.

The Qur’an is claimed to be the literal word(s) of Allah as passed to Muhammad. Are you denying this claim? Is the Qur’an more like the general gist of Allah? Are you not flirting with apostasy?

The Qur’an is the literal word(s) of Allah as passed to Muhammad

The Quran is a condensed non-abrogated balanced message, and at the same time its a poem, its not a 1 2 3 book and you have to read it carefully and in context.

Any verse abrogated or quoted out of context misses the whole point of the message of the Quran.

http://pressthat.wordpress.com/2007/09/22/war-in-the-quran/

http://pressthat.wordpress.com/2007/10/21/not-a-single-verse-of-the-quran-is-abrogated/

http://pressthat.wordpress.com/2007/09/22/abrogation-the-biggest-lie-against-quran/

but a lot of verses DO suit their purposes (the dehumanization and violence towards Non-believers, etc).

It is important that we study the religious texts in their proper context. When these texts are not read in their proper textual and historical contexts they are manipulated and distorted.

It is true that some Muslims manipulate some verses from the Quran for their own goals. But this is not only with Islamic texts, it is also true with the texts of other religions. I can quote dozens of verses from the Bible which seem very violent, if taken out from their historical context.

These Biblical texts have been used by many violent Jewish and Christian groups. Crusaders used them against Muslims and Jews. Nazis used them against Jews. Recently Serbian Christians used them against Bosnian Muslims. Zionists are using them regularly against Palestinians.

“How is that not supposed to reflect on the religion as a whole???”

Do not misuse or misinterpret the religious texts of other faiths in order to defame them __ Stefan

I will leave my other blogs address below so you can read more of his comments on that blog.  Also I want to encourage you to read the posts at the links he gave for pressthat.wordpress.com which is his blog.  You can find an article on that verse here the same article is also here.  In addition to that, the links for “openburhan”, are where you can find listed various translations of different verses in the Quran it is very informative. 

But I must say that if you read nothing else, or before you read any of the other blog entries of Stefan and Sukran on PressThat at wordpress,  Read thisIt is or rather shows different Hadiths that contradict the Quran.  Food for thought here, so bear with me… If I as a Christian, followed what the Bible said, and then some hundred years later or so, some book pops up that said, hey I was a disciple and Jesus said ‘this’; but that ‘this’, contradicted what I knew that the Bible said… who should I listen too??

It is my understanding that Muslims consider the Quran to be the actual word of God.  So why would it need, or should it need something else to complete it??  Do you get what I am saying here??  Please don’t misunderstand me, I am not trying to defame your religion.  Those of you who know me from my other blogs know that.  I am merely pointing out some interesting questions and asking for your opinion on it and pointing you towards something you may find challenging.  As challenging as I found it.  If you look at what he has to say, with an open mind, it makes sense.

On more comment and question.  I watched a video of a Preacher who met with and had a hour long interview with the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem.  (for those who don’t know, he would be the third highest behind the Mufti of Mecca and Medina)  During that interview the Preacher asked the Mufti if it was true that there is no compulsion in Islam.  The Mufti said it was true and they discussed it for a bit.  At this point the Preacher asked the Mufti, “If there is no compulsion in Islam, shouldn’t that apply to Muslims as well??”  Actually I think the way he put it was, “So it’s ok for Muslims to convert to Christianity?” It was one of those two comments, at any rate the Mufti was not amused at the comment and actually got angry.  I will find the video and put it up if you want to see it.  But my question is the same as his…

Shouldn’t what is written in the Quran apply to Muslims more than anyone??  And yet someone like my friend here would be considered an apostate because he believes in the Quran alone.  In Islam, changing your faith can be punished with prison or death, depending on the country you are in.  In some parts of the world, someone could come up and kill you for no other reason than you don’t believe the way they do.  Something is seriously wrong with that picture.  Why is it against the law??  Doesn’t the Quran also say that those “apostates”, will have their punishment in the after life??  So why make it a crime now??  And how can making it a crime be justified??  These aren’t rhetorical questions, I would really like an answer. 

In the West the only law we have concerning religion is that we are to be free to worship who we want and how we want, or not if that’s our wish.  Those of you who aren’t American, you do realize why America was formed??  Back in the day, those from England came to America to have freedom of religion.  The King or Queen of England was known as “The Keeper Of The Faith”, which was intertwined with the Catholic Church and then Protestant.  At the time there was no freedom of religion, wars were fought over whether the country would remain Catholic or change.  ((Historians, don’t jump on me, that was just a very small rough draft, to make a point .))  The point is, from the very beginning of America, the government was set up to keep separate religion and government so as to not have the problems that Mary Queen of Scots and Victoria were having in England, and there abouts.

Now that I’ve blathered on, , what is wrong with having freedom of religion, when even the Quran calls for it??     

As you can see, and I have said, Islam is as varied as Christianity, and at least some sects seem a bit ‘out there’, as do some of ours.  The person I have been speaking of is the one who wrote “Don’t blame the Jews” which I posted a little while ago.  I am interested in what our Muslim readers think about it.  Please comment and share your thoughts.  Please note that when going to “Pressthat” it always opens to “About Us”, but if you look on the sidebar you can find the most recent posts.

That was going to be my final thing for this post, because it is getting long, but I just had to add this last thing.  As I said, I will put my other blog address below, starting with where my friend started commenting so you can read his thoughts.  In the mean time, I have to put this last comment of his on here, since we are talking about apostates,  Hadiths and the Quran. Another thing I want to say, for all the calls for death for all who don’t believe like the Islamist…  I have had the pleasure to make friends of Muslims from all of the main sects in Islam.  We hear so many horrible things from people who claim to be Muslim, while they violate the Quran on a daily basis.  It is a wonderful thing when we have the tool you are on right now, to make friends of others from different religions and to discuss our religion, ask questions, answer questions, and all without trying to kill one another.  As long as we do that, there is always hope.  Ok time for the last comment (I promise)…  This answer is in regards to a question about the verse in the Bukhari which states; “Whoever changes their religion, kill them”.The Messenger of Allah SalAllahu alaihi wasallam said:
من بدّل دينه فاقتلوه
“Whoever changes his religion, kill him”. (Bukhari)

I believe that Islam can only be found in the Quran and the messenger’s job to deliver the message.

The teachings of the message delivered by the messenger doesn’t mention any punishments for the Apostate, because he is going to be the loser after all.

وَلاَ تَسُبُّواْ الَّذِينَ يَدْعُونَ مِن دُونِ اللّهِ فَيَسُبُّواْ اللّهَ عَدْوًا بِغَيْرِ عِلْمٍ كَذَلِكَ زَيَّنَّا لِكُلِّ أُمَّةٍ عَمَلَهُمْ ثُمَّ إِلَى رَبِّهِم مَّرْجِعُهُمْ فَيُنَبِّئُهُم بِمَا كَانُواْ يَعْمَلُونَ

And do not insult those who call on other than God, lest they insult God without knowledge. And We have similarly adorned for every nation their works; then to their Lord is their return and He will inform them of what they had done. 6:108

http://www.openburhan.net/ob.php?sid=6&vid=108

وَإِذَا سَمِعُوا اللَّغْوَ أَعْرَضُوا عَنْهُ وَقَالُوا لَنَا أَعْمَالُنَا وَلَكُمْ أَعْمَالُكُمْ سَلَامٌ عَلَيْكُمْ لَا نَبْتَغِي الْجَاهِلِينَ

And if they come across vain talk, they disregard it and Say: “To us are our deeds, and to you is your deeds. Peace be upon you. We do not seek the ignorant.” 28:55

http://www.openburhan.net/ob.php?sid=28&vid=55

وَلَا تُجَادِلُوا أَهْلَ الْكِتَابِ إِلَّا بِالَّتِي هِيَ أَحْسَنُ إِلَّا الَّذِينَ ظَلَمُوا مِنْهُمْ وَقُولُوا آمَنَّا بِالَّذِي أُنزِلَ إِلَيْنَا وَأُنزِلَ إِلَيْكُمْ وَإِلَهُنَا وَإِلَهُكُمْ وَاحِدٌ وَنَحْنُ لَهُ مُسْلِمُونَ

And do not argue with the people of the Scripture except in the best manner; except for those who are wicked amongst them; and Say: “We believe in what was revealed to us and in what was revealed to you, and our god and your god is the same; to Him we surrender.” 29:46

http://www.openburhan.net/ob.php?sid=29&vid=46

We believe that the message is the Truth and we must explain our point of view in a good manner and we have nothing to worry about from apostates but unfortunately the Bukharians who are using the name of Islam to kill anyone who disagree with their policies, exposing their man made religion is a fear for all of them, thats why they think that killing is the solution to avoid those who reject their teachings.

http://pressthat.wordpress.com/

https://eaglespearlsofwisdom.wordpress.com/2007/10/08/israel-prophecy-and-the-end-times-1/

There is an ongoing discussion here:

https://eaglespearlsofwisdom.wordpress.com/2007/10/24/the-women-with-mustaches-who-will-kill-the-mahdi-1/

Imam Mahdi 2

Imam Mahdi 2 magnify

Since we are talking about the Mahdi and the differences between Sunni and Shiites, I found a article that may interest you. I will post part of it here, and put the link below. We will also go over some of the hadiths in regards to the Mahdi. It is interesting to note that in my research, I have found that Muslims often refer to different hadiths as strong or weak or in between. Which totally surprized me, I mean we have idiots out killing people over what they consider the Hadiths to say, but now I hear that even amongst Muslim they don’t give them all the same amount of weight.

I have a Muslim friend who sticks to the Quran and the Quran only. Sometime in the future, I will write about that and point you in his direction. Needless to say, I was fasinated with some of what he had to say, you may feel the same way. But for now, back to the subject at hand.

We already covered part of this yesterday, but I like the way this guy writes and I couldn’t leave out the stuff we already talked about, it would take away from his article.

I know these posts are long and involved, I just can’t see how to shorten them and get all the information in. When writing about Christianity, I write directly from what the Bible says about the end times, and my own beliefs. When writing about Islam’s belief’s, there is a lot of information, and different views of which, I am trying to cover most. So bare with me.

The word al-Mahdi never actually appears in the Qur’an, Islam’s main religious text, the passive of its Arabic stem appearing only four times. Support for the Mahdi finds itself completely within hadith, records of the traditions or sayings of Muhammad. While Sunni and Shii Muslims have their own hadith collections—their respective collections reflecting their respective beliefs—some overlap exists.

The Shii established their own form of leadership based on hereditary succession from Ali. The imam (“pattern,” “model,” “leader”) is the “divinely inspired, sinless, infallible, religiopolitical leader of the (Shii) community”. The imam must be a direct descendant of Muhammad and Ali, the first imam. The doctrine of the imamate is the fundamental difference between Shii and Sunni Islam.

The doctrine of the imamate, while originally simple, developed over time into complex theories and ideas that facilitated Mahdism. First, imams have the “divine right to be successors to the Prophet”, possessing authority in both the temporal and religious spheres because of their kinship with Muhammad and past “ruling kings”. Final authority on all subjects rests with the imam, as opposed to Sunni belief in consensus (ijma) of religious scholars (ulama) for authoritative decision-making.

Second, authority is passed from father to son by the father’s nomination (nass). The imam derives his authority not by the say of men, but by nass, the explicit designation of the previous imam and, thereby, the designation of God. This is reminiscent of the apostolic succession in Roman Catholic Christianity ((which is interesting, as you shall see in the future)).

Third, the imams have the ability to understand both the outer, exoteric, and inner, esoteric, meanings of the Qur’an by virtue of the “Muhammadan light” ((that sounds dangerous….for Muslims)), which is passed along to each succeeding imam. Fazlur Rahman ascribes this doctrine to Gnostic doctrines incorporated into Shii doctrines as Muslim territory expanded and attempted to incorporate peoples of different faiths.

Fourth, because interpretation of the Qur’an’s inner meaning relies on the “miraculous guidance of God”, the imam is infallible, protected from both error and sin ((again, dangerous)).

Fifth, since it is the imam who guides and sustains believers in the absence of the Prophet, the world can never be without an imam.

Sixth, imams are not regular humans; rather, they have a position somewhere between human and divine beings.

Belief in the imam can be referred to as the “third cardinal article of [Shii] Faith, after belief in God and in His Apostle” (with the exception of Zaydi Shii, mentioned later). According to S.H.M. Jafri, many of the doctrines concerning the imam were institutionalized by Imam Jafar al-Sadiq as a way to firmly establish the legitimacy of the imamate, “to save the basic ideal of Shi’ism from absorption by the emerging synthesis on the one hand, and to purify it from extremist and activist activities on the other.” Interestingly, however, Sadiq’s doctrines facilitated belief in the Madhi, a belief that came to be supported by many of the same “extremists” from whom he was protecting the “mainstream” Shii.

Among the extremists from whom Jafar wished to protect Shiism were the ghulat of Kufa, who believed in a temporary absence or occultation (ghayba) of the Mahdi and his subsequent return. This early group of ghulat would find a place in the mainstream amongst al-Mukhtar ibn ‘Ubayd’s Kaysaniya, a larger group which al-Mukhtar led in a revolt against the oppressive Umayyads in 686 C.E. following the deaths of Ali’s other two sons, Hasan and Husayn. Al-Mukhatar is credited with one of the earliest popular usages of the term Mahdi for having applied it to Muhammad ibn al-Hanafiya, a son of Ali by a woman other than Fatima.

Although the term “Mahdi” was originally used as an honorific title without a messianic connotation— it was applied to the Prophet and the first four caliphs — it by this time had become, as evinced by al-Mukhtar’s use of it, a term used for an expected ruler who would restore the glory of Islam.

Al-Mukhatar claimed the caliphate on behalf of al-Hanafiya, calling him “the Mahdi, son of the legatee,” a term applied to Ali by those who believed Muhammad had appointed Ali his successor. Although al-Hanafiya refused to accept the title, this movement popularized several aspects of Shii Mahdism such as the doctrine of nass and the idea that the Mahdi would go into concealment, or occultation, and later return. In addition, a popular claim that the name of the Mahdi would be the same as the Prophet’s was probably made at this time in order to strengthen al-Mukhtar’s argument on behalf of Muhammad ibn al-Hanafiya.

Among the three main sects of the Shii, two have a belief in the Mahdi that is central to their faith: the Ismailis and the Ithna Asharis. The third group is the Zaydis, the smallest and most moderate sect. Zaydis believe that Zayd ibn Ali, a grandson of Husayn, was the rightful fifth Imam. Their beliefs most closely resemble those of the Sunni, not believing that their imams are more than human. Their Shiism resembles the early political Shiism that was simply allegiance to Ali. Fazlur Rahman goes so far as to say that aside from having a Shii imam, “the religion is that of Sunni Islam.”

The two main groups of Shii that do believe in the Mahdi split from each other in the eight century in a disagreement over who would succeed the sixth Imam, Jafar. The majority of the Shii believed that Jafar had recognized his second oldest son, Musa al-Kazim, as imam because the eldest son, Ismail, was found guilty of the sin of drinking wine. Among those who followed Ismail as the imam, the majority end the line of imams with Ismail, believing that in 760 C.E., when he died before his father, he went into seclusion, later to return as the Mahdi.

The majority of those that had followed Musa al-Kazim as opposed to Ismail end the line of imams with the twelfth Imam, son of the eleventh Imam, Hasan al-Askari. Upon al-Askari’s death in 874 C.E., rumor abounded that he had left no offspring behind him. Nevertheless, most people came to believe that at the time of his death, he actually did have a five or six year old son, Muhammad, who al-Askari had designated as the next imam. Soon after his father’s death, however, the young Imam went into concealment, or occultation, to return at the end of time. His concealment consisted of two stages: the “lesser concealment,” which ended in approximately 939 C.E. and the “greater concealment,” to end just before the end of time. During the absence of the Mahdi (the imam), the religious experts, mujtahids, lead the community.

The doctrines associated with the Mahdi were shaped by several factors. First, the characteristics ascribed to the imamate by people such as Imam Jafar, particularly that God would never leave the world without an imam, made a “concealed” Mahdi a necessity. As Said Arjomand explains, “The centrality of the Imams to Shiite Islam made the inevitable crisis of succession caused by the Imam’s death a chronic threat to the survival of the community.” Mahdism, then, was a solution to a problem for the Shii, Ismaili, and Ithna Ashari alike.

A second factor that shaped the development the doctrine of the Mahdi in Shiism was a desire to be rescued from persecution. An examination of the common themes among Shii Mahdist traditions—“that he will appear when the world has reached its worst state of affairs; his reign will be a time of natural abundance, and he will spread justice, restore faith, and defeat the enemies of Islam [. . .] , and he will be generous and divide the wealth”—suggests that those who subscribed to belief in the Mahdi were not pleased with the present condition of their lives. For example, al-Hanafiya was believed to be the Mahdi by those who wished to escape persecution from the Umayyads. Likewise, in modern times, it has been argued that Mahdists have justified resistance to colonialism through their beliefs, heralding the imposition of colonialism on Muslims as a “sign of the hour” and accommodating their beliefs to that threat. Doctrinal responses to oppression are found not only in purely Mahdist doctrines, but also in other Shii doctrines such as taqiya, dissimulation. Taqiya, instituted by Muhammad al-Baqir and elaborated by Jafar al-Sadiq, has a “double meaning of caution and dissimulation for survival in a hostile world”; that is, believers may deny their beliefs if those beliefs put their lives in danger.

A third factor that has wrought the development of Mahdism has been increasing Muslim dissatisfaction with the status of the Islamic community. Wilfred Cantwell Smith, as quoted by Riffat Hassan, says it best:

The fundamental malaise of modern Islam is a sense that something has gone wrong with Islamic history. . . The fundamental spiritual crisis of Islam in the twentieth century stems from an awareness that something is awry between the religion which God has appointed and the historical development of the world which [God] controls.

This statement, however, rings true not only in the twentieth century, but has rung true for each succeeding generation of Muslims since the Abbasid revolution and Islam’s fall from Eurasian dominance. Reform movements led by men such as al-Ghazali and Ibn Taymiyya demonstrate this dissatisfaction. Mahdists have sought solace in the belief that the Mahdi would come soon to save them from the “enemies of Islam”, the Ithna Asharis believing, for instance, that the Mahdi, when he comes, will make the entire world accept Islam “willingly or by force”.

While the Shii certainly have the most institutionalized belief in the Mahdi, the belief is not completely alien to Sunni Islam. Unlike the Shii, however, the Sunni generally believe that the Mahdi will be “an ordinary man whose career is that of a reformer and conqueror.” Fazlur Rahman suggests that belief in the Mahdi made its way into Sunni doctrine through Sufism, a mystical form of Islamic piety. He states that in Sunni Islam, “where a deep-seated consciousness existed of the failure of political and public life to meet the standards of the Islamic ideal, [messianic] ideals found a ready place in the hearts of the frustrated and disillusioned public through the effective mediacy of [Sufi] preachers.” Consequently, Shii hadith containing Mahdist doctrine found their way into the Sunni hadith collections of Abu Dawud, al-Tirmidhi, Ibn Madja, al-Nasa’i, and the Musnad of Ibn Hanabal.

With its presence in both popular Sunni Islam and Shii Islam, the Mahdi, a messianic figure who will rule at the end of the world, can safely be called “Islam’s messianic figure”. Importantly, however, the presence of the Mahdi is only a sign that the end times are at hand. The arrival of the Mahdi is not the ultimate event of Islamic eschatology. Interestingly, the arrival of the Mahdi is often associated with the return of Jesus. Some claim that there will be no Mahdi at all, his role instead fulfilled by Jesus. Others say he will precede Jesus, who will descend later and assist the Mahdi in his battle against al-Dadjjal, the false messiah ((we will get to this)). Belief in the Mahdi has been more fervent at times when the Muslim masses have felt particularly oppressed or humiliated and until either the Muslim community reasserts itself atop the world’s hierarchy or the Mahdi arrives, one can only assume such a trend will, to some extent, continue.

I would encourage those who want to understand the split between Sunni’s and Shiite’s to read the entire article. I printed here the items there in regards to the Mahdi. What are your thoughts on this??

I want to say one more thing in regards to my previous post about Sufyaani. I believe I made the statement in that post that it sounded to me like Sufyaani appeared to me to be a conflict between Sunni’s and Shiites. While doing some research for upcoming posts, I found this statement by Khomeini, of Iran while addressing a youth rally:

“The Islamic and non-Islamic powers of the world will not admit our power till such time that we establish our hold over Makkah and Madinah because these are the centers and citadels of Islam. Hence our domination over these places Is an essential requirement … when as a conqueror I will enter Makkah and Madinah, the first thing to be done at that time by me would be to dig out two idols (Abu Bakr and Umar) lying by the side of the Prophet’s grave.”

The first scism between Sunni’s and Shiites was in 661 A.D when Ali the fourth of the “rightly guided” Khalifahs (Caliphs) was murdered by the henchmen of Abu Muawiya ibn Sufyan who became the fifth caliph. Shiites look upon Ali as the rightful heir to the Caliphate, being the cousin and son-in-law of the prophet Mohammed. Sunnis are loyal to Abu Muawiya ibn Sufyan who was the descendant of Abu Sufyan, the pre-Islamic ruler of Mecca and a rival of prophet Mohammed.

While the sectarian divide along Shiite-Sunni lines is discernable, that along tribal lines is not. We discussed a little about the Hasemites in that post as well; The rivalry of the Saudis and the Wahabis with the Hasemites goes back to the defeat, of the Hashemites by the Saudi Wahabis in the early 20th century which ultimately has its roots in early Islamic history when the descendants of prophet Mohammed were outmaneuvered by the descendants of the pre-Islamic ruler of Mecca Abu Sufyan. Thus the Al Qaeda who is the inheritor of the Wahabi ideology, has a case against the Hashemites with a pedigree going back to 1300 years. You can go here and learn something about the Hashemite’s, including the fact that King Abdullah of Jordan is Hashemite. His family tree is on this site, as is some history about Islam and the Hashemites.

You can also go here and learn more about what Wahabis are doing in Pakistan, at least in 2002, to followers of Ahlul Bayt. According to the article, Wahabis were killing various scholars, teachers and students of seminaries, religious figures, politico-religious parties leaders and activists, officials of various government and private institutions for no other reason except they were Shiite. The Wahabis were doing this under the guise of being Sunni. When the Sunni Muslims of Pakistan denounced them…, they did what you would expect, they started killing the Sunni’s as well. Minimals research into Abu Sufyan and Sufyaani shows that when Muslims talk about the end times, in regards to this prophecy, they are talking about a war between Muslims.

On my other blog, I had a Muslim (the one I talked about above), make the comment, “It’s sad to know that the majority of Muslims living today are fulfilling prophecies of war against other religions to please God.” As I said, I will be writing more about him in the future, but in what we see with Bin Lyin, and others, I think he’s right.

http://www.wm.edu/so/monitor/spring2001/paper2.htm#_edn7

Imam Mahdi 1

I have discovered that there are some big differences in Shiite and Sunni views of the 12th Imam, or Imam Mahdi. I will be going over the Shiite views here, and until I say that the views are Sunni. It appears to me that the Shiite view is much more involved than the Sunni. During the next several posts we will look at the Mahdi up too, Dajjal, so don’t think I missed anything. We will cover more on the Mahdi after going over Dajjal.

Muhammad ((according to some)), prophesied about several events that will occur just before the advent of the Day of Judgment. Among these, Rasulullah ((just to interupt here for a second…does the definition of Rasulullah make sense to you??)), has foretold the advent of one of his descendants, the Mahdi (the guided one), which will materialize when the believers are severely oppressed in every corner of the world ((we talked about this in the last post)). He will fight the oppressors, unite the Muslims, bring peace and justice to the world, rule over the Arabs, and lead a prayer in Mecca at which ‘Eessa (Jesus) will be present ((we will get to this and some of the other things mentioned above)).

What is nice, is some people give a precise description of the Mahdi, but some how, I don’t think they have it right… No disrespect to my Muslim readers, but doesn’t this seem a bit too descriptive. What happens if some guy meets those things, but isn’t the Mahdi, but he thinks that he is, because he has read that stuff?? Case in point, this guy.

The Mahdi will be a Sayyid, from the progeny of say-yiditina Faatimah ((Fatimah)), the daughter of Rasulullah (Muhammad). He will not be very tall nor short. He will be well built. He will not be black nor brown, yellow or very white. His face will resemble the face of Rasulullah. His habits, morals and way of life will be similar to that of Rasulullah/Muhammad.
His name will be Muhammed. His fathers name Abdullah, and mothers name Aaminah. He will have a slight stutter in his speech, as a result at times he will hit his thigh with his palm. His ilm, he will receive directly from Allah, most high. However, sayyid Birzanjee writes in his kitaab that I could not find the name of Imam Mahdi’s mother in the riwaayaat (narrations).

There are numerous hadiths cited in Sunni and Shiite sources from Muhammad and the Imams concerning the appearance of the Mahdi, such as, that he is of the progeny of the Prophet and that his appearance will enable human society to reach true perfection and the full realization of spiritual life. In addition, there are numerous other traditions concerning the fact that the Mahdi is the son of the eleventh Imam, Hasan al-Askari. They agree that after being born and undergoing a long occultation (hidden by God)(since 868) the Mahdi will appear again, filling with justice the world that has been corrupted by injustice and iniquity (we will get into just how that is to take place).

At least that is what some think. Some believe he will be born, some believe he is the actual son of the 11th Imam, Hasan ibn Ali Askari, who, as I said, is still alive but in hiding for the last 1100-1200 or so years. I’m beginning to get a clearer picture on why all Muslims don’t think alike. The opponents of The Followers of Ahlu Bayt protest that according to the beliefs of this school the Hidden Imam should by now be nearly twelve centuries old, whereas this is impossible for any human being. And in answer to that some have said, that the protest is based only on the unlikelihood of such an occurrence, not its impossibility. Of course such a long lifetime or a life of a longer period is unlikely. But those who study the hadiths, and the Imams will see that they refer to this life as one possessing miraculous qualities, especially when you consider what he is going to do, if in fact he is as old as some say. I can say that when you look at the old testiment in the Bible, there were some who had extra long lives too, but…1200 years old, seems pretty old.

Ghaybat al-Sughra or Minor Occultation (874-939) is the shorter of the two periods, during which deputies of the Imam maintained communication to the rest of the world.
Ghaybat al-Kubra or Major Occultation began 939 and is believed to continue until a time decided by God, when the Mahdi will reappear to bring absolute justice to the world.

So we have two different Sects in Islam who believe in the Mahdi, but not in who the Mahdi is, which could cause some trouble within Islam itself. No doubt that each side considers the other to be heretics. I have been told that at least in the Quran, there is no mention of the Mahdi.

There are some who have written that there was no Mahdiism in the beginning of Islam. It was only in the second half of the first century (7th century CE) that the idea appeared among the Muslims. There was a group that regarded Muhammad b. Hanafiyya as the Mahdi and gave the good news to the people about the good fortune Islam would acquire through him. The same group believed that Muhammad b. Hanafiyya had not died but he was living in Mt. Radwa and one day would return.” There are others who say that the belief in Mahdi was widespread during the time of the Prophet Muhammad.

A tradition reported by Abu al-Hujaf quotes the Prophet saying three times:

Listen to the good news about the Mahdi! He will rise at the time when people will be faced with severe conflict and the earth will be hit by a violent quake. He will fill the earth with justice and equity as it is filled with injustice and tyranny. He will fill the hearts of his followers with devotion and will spread justice everywhere. Bihar al-anwar, Vol. 51, p. 74

This next verse is very important, as you will see in future posts, so make a note of it, both Muslims and Christians (don’t give it away, those of you who know why)

The Day of Resurrection will not take place until the True Qa’im rises. This will happen when God permits him to do so. Anyone who follows him will be saved, and anyone who opposes him will perish. O servants of God, keep God in your mind and go towards him even if it happens to be on the ice, for indeed he is the caliph of God, the Exalted and Glorified, and my successor. Bihar al-anwar, Vol. 51, p. 65; Ithbat al-hudat, Vol. 6, p. 382

Just to refresh from the last post, which is also the sign of the Mahdi’s return… Sufyaani will emerge in Palestine, where he will start a revolt in the month of Rajab (A little help here, what month is that??). He will be an uncompassionate rebel and his rule will last for eight consecutive months. He will conquer and rule Egypt for four consecutive months. Sufyaani will conquer Tunisia, Algeria, Morocco, Jordan, and Syria. Sufyaani has been specifically described by Aimma A.S. as an ugly, blistered, green-eyed, cross-eyed person who will be an enemy of the friends of the Ahlul-Bait which I assume is this, there is also a Shiite community in South Africa by the same name.  Imam Ali has said that Sufyaani’s hatred of the devotees of the Ahlul-Bait will be such that any person named Ali, Fatima, Hassan, Hussein, Zainab, Ruquaiya will be arrested and beheaded straight away without further investigations. Sufyaani will rip the  Mimber of the Prophet Mohammad. The house of the Prophet which contains his grave will be pulled and used as a stable. Horses will be tied in that place. Sufyaani will then attack Mecca, his purpose is supposed to be to destroy the Kabba and kill all the people of Mecca. According to the prophecy his army is supposed to start off on its march towards Mecca from Baghdad (some believe Syria), but when they get to the desert of Baida, between Mecca and Medina;  It is said that the entire army numbering 100,000 persons will be swallowed up by the earth, except for two. The two who will be spared will suddenly encounter an angel. He will slap both of them turning their faces right round, looking behind instead of front. And that will be the time when Imam Mahdi will already have reappeared in Mecca. 

The Mahdi will establish his authority in the Mosque in Mecca in the Haram. The angel will then order one of them calling him Bashir. “O Bashir, go straight to Mecca, into the Haram and inform the Imam that Sufyaani’s army has been swallowed up by the land. The other called Nazir will be ordered to go to Sufyaani and tell him that the Imam has already appeared. He should proceed straight to Mecca and declare allegiance to him. Sufyaani will prepare to attack the Mahdi but evidently will not have the courage. The Mahdi will catch Sufyaani in Jerusalem and kill him.

I found another list of things that is said to occur prior to the Mahdi’s appearance, we have covered some of them already, but just in case there are new things, I will post this list as well.

Imam Ali has said that nine definite signs will precede the emergence of Hazrat Mahdi. These nine signs are:

1) Dajaal will emerge.
2) A loud voice will be heard from the sky.
3) Sufyaani will appear and wage a fierce war.
4) The army of Sufyaani will be swallowed by a sudden opening of the land between Mecca and Medina in the desert of Baida.
5) A revered wise saint will be murdered in Mecca. (This saint is to be a Hashimite descent.)
6)A Seyyid descendant of Imam Hassan will emerge with his army.
7) The army of Seyyid-e-Hassan and an image of a man will appear in the sky opposite the sun. ((what??))
8) There will be two eclipses in the holy month of Ramadhan contrary to the normal order and calculation and the eclipse of the moon.
9) On three occasions a loud voice from the sky will be heard in the holy month of Ramadhan. ((What’s the difference between this and number 2??)

I will be going over more on the Mahdi, and what Sunni’s say about the Mahdi. I hope I am not giving information overload, I am just trying to get everything down right.

Islam and The End Times 2 – Sufyaani

Islam and The End Times 2  - Sufyaani magnify

As I briefly mentioned in the last post, a desendant of Abu Sufyan is supposed to play a role in the Islam belief of the end times, so lets look at Abu Sufyan and the prophecy.

Among the signs preceding Imam Mahdi, is the appearance of the Sufyaani. The Sufyaani will emerge before the Mahdi from the depths of Damascus. According to Imam Qurtubi (R.A) his name will be Urwah. The Sufyaani will murder the Saadaat [desendant of Sayedina Hassan and Hussein (R.A) and will rule over Egypt and Shaam -(Jordan, Palestine, Lebanon and Syria). ((nice to know the name, he should be easy to spot ))

He will be one of many “Muslim” Tyrants that the Mahdi will have to face in the Middle East. The Sufyaani is NOT the Dajjal. The Hadith regarding the Sufyaani specify that he is a tyrant who will spread corruption and mischief on the earth before the Mahdi. He will be such a tyrant that he will kill the children and rip out the bellies of women. The Sufyaani will murder those from the household of the Prophet and will rule over Syria. When he hears about the Mahdi, he will send an army to seize and kill him. However the earth will swallow this army before it even reaches the Mahdi.

Abu Hurayrah has narrated that the Prophet said:

“A man will emerge from the depths of Damascus. He will be called Sufyaani. Most of those who follow him will be from the tribe of Kalb. He will kill by ripping the stomachs of women and even kill the children. A man from my family will appear in the Haram, the news of his advent will reach the Sufyaani and he will send to him one of his armies. He (referring to the Mahdi) will defeat them. They will then travel with whoever remains until they come to a desert and they will be swallowed. None will be saved except the one who had informed the others about them.” (Mustadrak)

Another site said this:

During the days of the sufyaani, the byzantine ruler will be at war with one Christian faction and will make peace with the other (Christian faction). Thus the waring Christian faction will run over Qustuntuniyyah (Istanbul), and will occupy it. The byzantine ruler will flee and go to Shaam. The Muslim army with the aid of the friendly Christian party will wage war against the enemy Christian party, and will be victorious.

A person from the friendly Christian party will thus announce that “because of the cross, victory was gained”, and in the name of the cross we won. On hearing this, a person from the Muslim army will assault this Christian person and will say no “Islaam was victorious and because of Islaam victory was gained”. As a result of this incident, war will break out between the Muslims and the friendly Christian party. The Muslim leader will be martyred and the Christians will take over Shaam. Thereafter, the two Christian parties will make peace, and the remaining muslims will migrate to Madinah.
The Christian rule will extend almost up to khaiber, which is to the north of Madinah. Now the muslims will begin their search for Allah’s khaleefah – the Mahdee.

And yet another website said this:

The 2 Proxy Mahdi’s Pave – Those That Pave The Way For The Mahdi Before He Arrives

Before the Mahdi’s appearance, there would be those who pave the way for his appearance. They would also act as Caliphs in his place, and therefore, would be proxy Caliphs, or proxy Mahdis.

Ibn-i Munawi said that, “Danyal (Daniel) (as) reported in his book that:

“There are 3 Sufyaanis and 3 Mahdis. When the first Sufyaani appears and his name and fame become widespread, the first Mahdi will confront him, the second Mahdi will confront the second Sufyaani and the third Mahdi will confront the third Sufyaani and Allah, the Exalted, will send him (the third Mahdi) to save the ones who have suffered mischief, and the believers. The Sunnah will be revived through him and oppression, injustice and cruelty will come to an end through him. The people will be highly prized and become victorious over their opponents at his time. A beautiful life will be lived, and the earth and the heavens will increase their blessing..” (*)

(*) This quote exists in a handwritten copy of the book titled Al-Burhan fi Alamat al-Mahdi Akhir al-Zaman held in the Suleymaniye Library.

In this quote, there are 2 Mahdis that appear before the real one. They are in fact the forerunners for the Mahdi – those who pave the way for him before he arrives, and appear around the same time he does. These 2 proxies, one succeeding the other, would be Caliphs, but without a Caliphate system or an Islamic state in place. When the Mahdi appears, he would succeed, with their support, in finally overthrowing the despotic tyrants, then establishing his Caliphate over the Muslims.

In another hadith, there identities are specified:

Narrated ‘Ali son of Abu Talib:,

“The Prophet said, ‘A man named al-Harith son of Hirath will come from Transoxania (Tajikistan). His army will be led by a man named Mansoor. He will be pave the way for and establish the government of the family of Muhammad, just as the Quraysh established the government of the Messenger of Allah. Every believer will be obliged to support them.’”

(Sunan Abu-Dawud, Book 36, No. 4277)

Thus, the first proxy to appear, would a man named “al-Harith”, and the one who leads his army and succeeds him as the second proxy, would be the “Mansoor”.

THE HASHIMITE

The first one is the Hashimite (a descendant of the Hashim tribe), by the name of Harith son of Hirrath, who will emerge, during the time of the Sufyaani, from beyond the Euphrates River, and his army, the army of the Mahdi, will be led by the Mansoor . The former (i.e. Haarith) will be preparing the minds of Muslims to-accept the Mahdi when he comes. He will perform the same task for the Mahdi, what the Qurayish performed for The Messenger of Allah (Sallallahu alayhi wasallam) in Medina before the Hijrah. The Mansoor will aid him in this direction. It is compulsory upon every Muslim to help this Haarith, or to respond to his call.

During this time, there would be a war in Byzantium (Turkey), in which the Byzantine ruler will be at war with one Roman faction (who will be invading them) and will be allied with another (Roman faction). Thus the warring faction will run over Qustuntuniyyah (Istanbul), and will occupy it. The Byzantine ruler will flee and go to Bilad al-Sham. The Hashimite and a faction of Mujahids with him, will join with the armies of al-Sham, now allied with Turkey’s Roman ally, in the third peace agreement between them. Together, they will wage war against, and invade, the enemy beyond Rome, and will be victorious. This war would be global.

There would be joint re-conquest of Istanbul, and a Christian from the allied Romans will erect a cross, and announce that “because of the cross, victory was gained, and in the name of the cross we won.” On hearing this, a person from the Muslim army will assault him and will say, “No. Islam was victorious and because of Islam victory was gained”, and shall go and break the cross. As a result of this incident, war will break out between the Muslims and the allied Romans. Those Muslims, as well as their leader, the Hashimite, will be martyred and the Romans will take over al-Sham. Thereafter, the two Roman factions will join together, breaking their peace-agreement with the Arabs, and then going to war against them.

THE MANSOOR (VICTOR)

After the Hashimite’s martyrdom, he will be succeeded by the Mansoor, named Shu’ayb son of Salih from the tribe of Tamim. The term “Mansoor” is a title, meaning “victor”, or “one who is given victory”. As such, Shu’ayb is the one who leads the Mahdi’s army to victory. He will lead the army of the Mahdi, who will come from the East carrying Black flags. The East here refers to Taliqan in Khurasan, i.e. Afghanistan. They will pave the way for the establishment of the Mahdi’s kingdom. Nothing shall stop their onward march, and eventually they will plant their flags on the soils of Jerusalem.

After al-Sham is taken over by the Romans, Egypt would soon follow, and eventually their rule would extend up to Khyber. At that point, the comet with a tail (a sign of the Mahdi), will appear. Its passing would knock out technology, and cause much devastation across the world, resulting in a shift in the balance of powers. Afterwards, there would be the War of the Euphrates and Ethiopia will attack Sudan, then being defeated. The Sufyaani would then come and take over Syria, then start massacring people in Iraq. When some flee to Khurasan, the Sufyaani’s army attempt to move eastward in pursuit of them. Then the Hashimite’s army of the Mahdi, now under the leadership of the Mansoor, would engage them in Iran, and defeat them. The Sufyaani’s army would escape, then launching an assault into Saudi Arabia, with the help of the Romans, and killing its king. There will be a fight in Mecca, thereafter, between two groups of people, each one seeking the kingdom. However, none of them will gain it. This fight will take place in the month of Zul-Qa’dah, and even in Mina during Hajj, there will be quarrelling. After this, the Mahdi would appear.

Details of the Sufyaani

Name and Title:
According to Imam Qurtubi, his name will be Urwa son of Muhammad and his kunniya ‘Abu Utbah’ and is given the title “Sufyaani” due to his descent from Abu Sufyaan.

Physical Characteristics:
He will be a man with a large head, a pockmarked face, and white spots in his eyes.

Family Lineage:
The Sufyaani will be from the Quraysh. His mother will be from the tribe of Kalb, but he is from the progeny of Khaleed son of Yazeed son of Abu Sufyaan.

Character:
He will have the characteristics of an apostate and a hypocrite. He will appear to be outwardly pious, but in reality he will be an apostate.

Details of His Emergence and Rule:
The dark people will come after the Arabs and they will be defeated and thrown into the lowest part of the earth. In revolt, a Sufyaani (possibly by the name of Urwah son of Muhammad), who descends from Abu Sufyaan, and whose mother is from the tribe of Kalb, will come (possibly from Egypt) with 360 riders until he reaches Damascus. Then he will emerge – overrunning and seizing control of Syria. He will have 3 staffs in his hand, and anyone whom he strikes with them will die. After a month the tribe of Kalb will also follow him. The Sufyaani will then send an army to Iraq, killing 100,000 in Az-Zawra, and also will receive the support of the Roman forces. The Sufyaani and his forces will go to Kufa and pillage it, killing the descendants of the Prophet and to the point where he kills children and rips open women. In retaliation the tribe of Qays will rise up against him, but they will be defeated, and he will slaughter them in Kurkisa. One of them will escape to Afghanistan, and then the forces of the Sufyaani will come, demanding the Afghanis. Then an army carrying black banners will come, and at their front is a youth from the tribe of Tamim named Shuayb son of Salih, along with a Hashimite. They will engage the forces of the Sufyaani at the Gate of Istakhr (in Southern Iran) and will defeat them, however, the riders will escape. The Afghanis, after suffering from the battle, will demand the Mahdi out of necessity. Then an army of the Sufyaani will go to Medina, and pillages it for 3 days, and those who escape will flee to Mecca. Several men from the Quraysh will escape to Istanbul and the Sufyaani will send to the leader of the Romans who returns them to the Sufyaani and he slits their throats together with their followers.

Upon the Emergence of The Mahdi
When the story of Divine Help being granted to the Mahdi spreads throughout the Muslim world, the Abdaals of Syria will come to pledge allegiance to the Mahdi and join his ranks. Similarly, other Muslim armies from Medina and elsewhere will also come to Mecca and offer their support and allegiance to the Mahdi. The Imam will leave Mecca for Medina, where he will offer salaam at the Rowzha Mubarak (The Grave of The Messenger of Allah Sallallahu alayhi wasallam). Soon after, the forces of the Mahdi will move onward from Medina, and engage the forces of the Sufyaani at Syria.

The End of Sufyaani
The Sufyaani’s forces will be defeated in Syria, and this will be known as the “Battle of Kalb”. The Muslim fighters under the Mahdi will capture the Sufyaani and execute him under a tree and Syria would thus be liberated from the tyrannical rule of the Sufyaani.

This post in addition to my last post, gives you the idea of the coming ‘End Times’, based on the beliefs of Muslims.  Although, it is still a bit confusing to me.  As I said before, we don’t see near as many people commenting and trying to intrepret Muslim texts as we do in Christian text.  Which is too bad for Muslims, as it seems it would make it harder for them to understand as well.  Also we already know that not all Muslims believe the same way, and I think that I am mixing the Sunni and Shiite beliefs a bit, well not so much mixing, but leaving out.

Next we will start to go into the Mahdi. We will also go over the difference in Sunni and Shiite beliefs and the goals of Ahmadnutjob. There is much much more that we are going to cover but as you can see, both sides (Christian and Islam) have very drastic things prophesied about. We are getting ready to cover some of the most important things in regards to this series.  When it comes to discussing the anti-Christ in both faiths, it is not a mistake any of us want to make.

http://www.geocities.com/muslimapocalyptic/story_of_the_sufyaani.htm
http://members.tripod.com/alislaah4/advices41/id3.htm
http://forum.mpacuk.org/archive/index.php?t-15928.html