Anti-al Qaeda Base Envisioned

Here is the second post which is connected to the last one. Again, I found this on my friends blog, thank you Stefan. It is an article from The Washington Times, the link for this story is below.  As always any thing in ((and)) is my comment on the subject. One other thing I want to say, completely off topic. I had this post already in the line up to put up. I had hoped to do some research over the last couple of days since this time of year finds most of us extremely busy until after New Year’s Day. The series I am writing on takes a lot of research to get it right and cover everything. Anyway, on Saturday I started coming down with something, now its a full on head cold. The problem is, if it goes to my lungs, I could be in serious trouble. I have a preexisting lung problem and any other insult could not only cause me to have to go into the hospital, but it could kill me.

I’m telling you all this for two reasons; Number 1 is, I will do what I can with my blogs, but you know what its like when you have a head cold or don’t feel well. 2 if I disappear for a week or so, it could be I am in the hospital, so just so you know, its not because I am quiting the blog. 

Now, on with today’s post:

   

Article published Sep 26, 2007
an article from www.washingtontimes.com

By Willis Witter

Exiled Egyptian cleric Ahmed Subhy Mansour, whose teachings have earned him dozens of death “fatwas” from fellow Muslim clerics, uses the English translation for al Qaeda — meaning “the base” — to describe a plan to defeat Osama bin Laden and other terrorists, who he says have seized control of Islam.”Suppose you have here [in the United States] a base to counter al Qaeda in the war of ideas?” Sheik Mansour asked during a recent luncheon at The Washington Times.

“You could convince a large number — millions of silent Muslims. We can convince them very easily that the real enemy is not the United States. It is not Israel. The real enemy is the dictators in the Muslim world and the culture of the Wahhabis and Muslim Brotherhood,” he said, referring to the dominant arbiters of Islamic orthodoxy in Saudi Arabia and Egypt respectively.

Sheik Mansour is the founder of a small Egyptian sect that is neither Sunni nor Shi”ite. They call themselves Quranists because they believe that the Koran represents the single authentic scripture of Islam. They especially anger Sunni Muslims by rejecting the Hadith and Sunna, purported sayings and traditions of the prophet Muhammad.

“Killing people just because they are not Muslims, they have a Hadith for this. To kill a Muslim like me after accusing him to be an ‘apostate,” they have a Hadith for this. To persecute the Jews, they have a Hadith for this.“All this is garbage. It has nothing to do with Islam. It contradicts more than one-fourth of the Koranic verses,” Sheik Mansour said. ((one-fouth Wow!))A former professor of Islamic history at Al-Azhar University in Cairo, he was expelled in 1987 as the Muslim equivalent of a “heretic” and was briefly imprisoned by Egyptian authorities. After subsequent waves of persecution, he finally fled Egypt just months after the September 11, 2001, attacks and received political asylum in the United States the next year.

More recently, in May and June, Egyptian authorities arrested five leaders of the movement, including Sheik Mansour“s brother, on charges of “insulting Islam” and began investigations of 15 others, with the intent, he said, to destroy the entire movement.

From exile in the United States, he continues to attack the Islam of bin Laden and the Wahhabi Islam of Saudi Arabia that gave birth to bin Laden”s beliefs. Sheik Mansour also attacks the Islamist vision of Egypt”s Muslim Brotherhood, a group that rejects violence but shares the goal of a theocratic nationhood under Shariah, or Islamic law.

Though illegal in Egypt, the Brotherhood is allowed to operate openly in an uneasy truce with the government. Police round up its members whenever it delves too publicly in politics — for example, by holding anti-government demonstrations. But the Brotherhood”s interpretation of Shariah provides a benchmark for Egyptian law, which is based primarily on Shariah.

“We are not against the people. We are against this culture that will produce more and more generations of fanaticism. We go to the core of this culture and prove that it contradicts the Koran,” Sheik Mansour said.

“Few Americans understand that the battle against terrorism is a war of ideas,” Sheik Mansour said. “It is a war that is very different from the military in its tactics, its strategy and its weapons.

“Suicide bombings are just one aspect of this war. They brainwash young men to blow themselves up, to kill randomly. Our mission is to convince him, to undeceive them, to convince them that what he is doing is against Islam. He will lose his life and lose his afterlife as well.”Sheik Mansour claims about 10,000 followers in Egypt who accept his teachings, many of whom are part of his extended family.“We find Islam has the same values as the West: freedom, unlimited freedom of speech, justice, equality, loving, humanity, tolerance, mercy, everything. This is our version of Islam, and we argue that this is the core of Islam according to the Koran.”  ((Somebody tell me why people like these are so feared by the powers that be in Muslim nations??))

He and his sons operate the Quranic Center in Northern Virginia, which includes an elaborate Internet site in Arabic and English. On its Web site at www.ahlalquran.com, the organization is republishing dozens of Sheik Mansour“s books and hundreds of articles he has written over the years.  ((the english version http://www.ahl-alquran.com/English/main.php))

The campaign is not without risk. One can find a sampling of fatwas, or edicts by other Muslim scholars against the Quranists, including one saying, “We have issued our commands to the soldiers of God to worship God by pouring out their blood and burning their homes.”  ((Those of you who live in the West, be grateful for your religious freedom.))

Sheik Mansour said in response: “I do not care about my safety, but I do care about my persecuted people in Egypt.”

Paul Marshall, a senior fellow at the Hudson Institute”s Institute of Religious Freedom, said arrests of the Quranists reflect an attempt by Egypt”s government to demonstrate its loyalty to Islam to fend off challenges from even more extreme Islamists who want to impose much harsher restrictions on the Arab world”s most populous nation.

“These arrests are part of the Egyptian government’s double game in which it imprisons members of the Muslim Brotherhood when the latter appear to become too powerful, while simultaneously trying to appear Islamic itself and blunt the Brotherhood’s appeal by cracking down on religious reformers, who are very often also democracy activists,” Mr. Marshall wrote in a recent edition of the Weekly Standard.

The arrests of the Quranists received a brief mention in the latest annual report on International Religious Freedom by the State Department, which noted the arrests of five Quranists and defined the group as “a small group of Muslims who rely largely if not exclusively on the Qur’an as authoritative for Islam, to the exclusion of the prophetic traditions [Hadith] and other sources of Islamic law.”

One detainee told an Egyptian human rights investigator that he was beaten and threatened with rape by one interrogator, the State Department report says.  ((This isn’t the first time I’ve heard of this kind of punishment and interrogation torture.  So here we have a man being persecuted, because he is considered a heretic towards Islam, and we have some Muslims, torturing him and others… Please somebody tell me how one man raping another, or if a man rapes a woman … how ‘Islamic’ is that??  How is torture in any form Islamic??)) 

Since arriving in the states, Sheik Mansour has held a number of academic posts. In 2002, he was a Reagan-Fascell Fellow at the National Endowment for Democracy in Washington, where he wrote on the roots of democracy in Islam.

The next year, he received a visiting fellowship at Harvard Law School’s Human Rights Program.

He also briefly met Karen P. Hughes, the undersecretary of state for public diplomacy, last year in the office of Rep. Frank R. Wolf, Virginia Republican.The meeting, Sheik Mansour said, lasted for 10 minutes, barely enough for polite introductions.

“I said: ‘Please, let me sit down with you for more time. I have big plan,” ” he recalled. But there was no follow-up.

“We need official American help for our arrested people in Egypt,” he said. “We don”t want money. We are talking about releasing our arrested people, saving the lives of scholars, bringing them to the U.S., granting them asylum to help establish this new base for moderate Islam.”

http://www.washingtontimes.com/article/20070926/FOREIGN/109260030/1003

No Compulsion…As Long As You Believe Like Me

As we are going into Thanksgiving and I am very busy during this time of the year; I was afraid I wouldn’t be able to get at least 3 posts out this week. I won’t be putting up one on the topic I am currently working on however I found this on my friends blog.  We will get back to the other series the first of the week (hopefully).  But this post and the next one is just as informative and interesting as the series we are in, so I really want everyone to read it and the next one.

This article is written by Ahmed Mansour, and tells you some of the beliefs of these people who are being persecuted for not believing the same way as the powers that be.  I am printing it in it’s entirety here, but you can also find it here. Again, thank you Stefan for printing great stuff that I can share with others. I thought it was very interesting and worthwhile reading for all. Since I have 5 blogs, what better way to get this out there.  There is a part 2 to this which I will put up by Friday or Saturday.  Actually I think this post should be the second part, but I am putting it up first.

Again remember there is no compulsion in Islam… as long as you worship and/or believe the way your told. Anything else is subject to discrimination, jail, or death. Even if, or rather, especially if, you are a Muslim in a Muslim nation. In the early 1990’s, I was invited by the Egyptian association for religious brotherhood to lecture in a church in Cairo to Muslims and Christians about tolerance. I was warned that there was a suspicious bearded man waiting for me in front of the church.We talked. He told me that he had spent two months trying to meet me. He told me that he had been a member of secret fanatic organization and was assigned to rebut my discourse, but that my words had changed his and his family’s life. He asked me to join my weekly Friday prayer meeting at my home, and if possible bring his family.

After a month they became Quranists.

Who are the Quranists?

The Quranists are intellectual Muslims who believe in Islam as the religion of freedom, democracy, tolerance, justice, peace and human rights. They fight the terrorists’ culture from within Islam, using Quran as the only source of legislation.

Why they are persecuted?

The Quranic movement started in 1979 by sincere Muslim scholars who specialized in the contradiction between the true Islam and the Culture of Muslims. Therefore they were victimized by terrorists and fanatic scholars.
Being activists for human rights and democracy, and calling for peaceful reform from within Islam, the Quranists are also victimized by the Egyptian regime.

The Egyptian regime and Muslim Brothers are against each other but are usually united against Quranists.

Brief overview of the persecution of Quranists:

The Quranists have suffered three waves of arrest; in 1987, 2000-2001, and finally the third wave starting May 28th, 2007, when five of the Quranists were arrested, tortured for 37 days, interrogated, and suffered ridiculous accusations about their faith and prayers.

Their families were also persecuted in Egypt. Some moved to Upper Egypt and some stayed indoors. The Muslim Brothers used mosques, media and the education system, as well as their control of the streets to try to tarnish the Quranists as ardent enemies of Islam.

After the Egyptian regime officially accused the Quranists of insulting Islam, fanatics used the accusation to call for the Quranists’ death.

The five Quranists have been released in October 6, 2007, after more than four months in prison. Because of torture, my brother Abdellateef had to undergo surgery in his ear. Amr Tharwat needed surgery on his leg, while Ahmed Dahmash has damage in his backbone. The persecution continues. Every week, they must go to the same prison to be interrogated and humiliated by the security services. Any time they may be arrested and tortured again. They are ordered to pray the weekly Friday prayer in fanatic mosques, and are not allowed to contact me, or to write in our site.

In this way he Egyptian regime is seeking to make an example for the rest and keep the Quranists from continuing their reform movement.

Persecution in some detail:

As an assistant professor at Al-Azhar University, the oldest and most famous religious university in the Sunni Muslim world, I wrote five books in 1985 to reform Sunni religious life.. I was accused of being against Islam because I denied the intercession of the prophet Muhammad in the day of judgment, deny his infallibility, and deny that he is the best and the master of all the prophets. In March 1987, I was fired.In November 1987, I was arrested, along with 24 of my followers, and accused of being a denier of the Sunna, the sayings and the deeds of the prophet Muhammad. The government claimed that my writing were a call for Muslims to abandon Islam. After two months I was released.

To save my life, I escaped to the United States. When I returned to Egypt in October 1988 I was again arrested, and released after two days on the condition that I not defend myself whenever the fanatics of Al Azhar attacked me. In the period 1988-1995, I was attacked so severely, and received death threats so that I asked for court protection. From January 1996 until June 2000 I worked at the Ibn Khaldun Center as a Muslim scholar and moderator of the Center’s weekly forum. The Center is run by Dr. Saad Eddin Ibrahim, the famous sociologist, and leader of the movement for human rights, civil society and liberal culture in the Arab world. As an American citizen and part-time counselor of President Mubarak, Dr. Ibrahim has had great influence in Egypt in the 1990s.

My life was in real danger after I wrote a book as a project for the Center on reforming the Egyptian education system to make it more tolerant. I was severely attacked in the Egyptian parliament.

As a result of problems between Dr. Ibrahim and President Mubarak, Dr. Ibrahim was arrested in June 2000 and the Center shut down. Since I was in serious danger, and some of my relatives had been arrested, I contacted and explained the situation to officials in the US embassy.

The security service kept us constantly in a state of terror. They arrested more members of my family in my village. Finally they arrested some of my friends who used to attend my weekly prayer at home. One told me that he expected them to arrest both of us along with more of my relatives. He said they would as usual force my friends to make false accusations about me and so I fled to the US on October, 15, 2001. (This is reviewed in the U. S Department of State’s 2002 International Religious Freedom Report)

Since coming to the U.S, I have found the same Wahabi influence, and founded the International Quranic Center, with a website, to organize Quranists.

So, we suffer the third wave of arrest.

For more details:

http://www.ahl-alquran.com/English/show_article.php?main_id=126

http://www.ahl-alquran.com/arabic/show_article.php?main_id=2048 

How could the Quranists help the U.S in this war of ideas against the terrorists?

The war against terrorism is 90% war of ideas. This intellectual war has its unique aspects and rules. The Quranists are an Islamic group capable of defending the U.S in this ideological war against terrorism. Al Qaeda and all the terrorist organizations have real power in the war of ideas.

But they cannot debate us with logic and evidence, so they resort to brute force, with government accomplices. So we are jailed, tortured, driven from out homes and made refugees in other countries. They issue fatwas calling for our death; thus proving once more that the Wahabi ideology cannot stand on its own feet, but requires the power of authorities to force it on people.

The only way to confront and defeat Wahabis is by using our ways and methods. We are Muslims, sincere about our faith and very much attached to and adhered to the Quran, and for the past thirty years, we never wavered, never retreated, we stood alone and stood firm, and despite the persecution and the lack of means, we managed to succeed in producing a genuine change in the Islamic interpretation and practices among many Muslims.

In conclusion, despite many successes, we are still victims of the Wahabi ideology and persecution of a tyrannical regime in Egypt on one hand, and a total neglect and disregard from the American institutions on the other hand.

http://www.ahl-alquran.com/English/show_article.php?main_id=2614

See :

Egyptian Human Rights Activist Saad Eddin Ibrahim Defies Threats, Arrests to Challenge U.S.-Backed Mubarak Government

And my next post, if you just can’t wait.  Or rather my copy/paste of Stefan’s post lol.  Oh well, it is a holiday after all. 

Pre-Dajjal

Pre-Dajjal magnify

  

For the record, since this is a holiday week, I may not get out as many posts, at least on the current series I am working on.  I will do my best to try and get out one on Mon, Wens., and Friday, but I’m not making any promises.  From here to the first of the year is normally very busy for me.  

I already started on posts about Dajjal or Islamic anti-Christ, but I missed some of the ‘signs’ of Dajjal’s appearance. So here it is.In my last post, I gave many descriptions of Dajjal.  I also told of a 3 year drought, that drought is supposed to happen, BEFORE Dajjal, so it should have been here, not in that other post. Evidently there will be 30 Dajjals before the main Dajjal. Below are the writings concerning the 30. 

These are from Ibn Kathir. 

Jabir ibn Samurah said, “I heard the Prophet say, ‘Just before the Hour there will be many liars.'” Jabir said, “Be on your guard against them.” (Muslim).

Jabir said, “I heard the Prophet say, ‘Just before the Hour there will be many liars; among them is the one in al-Yamamah, the ‘Ansi in San’a’, the one in Himyar, and the Dajjal. This will be the greatest fitnah (trial).”’ (Ahmad.)

Abu Hurayrah said, “The Prophet said, “The Hour will not come … until nearly 30 “dajjals” (liars) appear, each one claiming to be a messenger from Allah.'” (Bukhari Muslim.)

Abu Hurayrah said, “The Prophet said, ‘The Hour will not come until 30 “dajjals” appear, each of them claiming to be a messenger from Allah, wealth increases, tribulations appear and al-Harj increases.'” Someone asked, ‘What is al-Harj?’ He said, ‘Killing, killing.’ (Ahmad.)

Abu Hurayrah said, “The Prophet said, ‘The Hour will not come until 30 “dajjals” appear, all of them lying about Allah and His Messenger.” (Abu Dawud.)

Abu Hurayrah said, “The Prophet said, ‘Just before the Hour, there will be 30 “dajjals”, each of whom will say, I am a Prophet.'” (Ahmad.)

Abu Hurayrah said, “The Prophet said, ‘There will be “dajjals” and liars among my Ummah. They will tell you something new, which neither you nor your forefathers have heard. Be on your guard against them, and do not let them lead you astray.'” (Ahmad.)

Thawban said, “The Prophet said, ‘There will be 30 liars among my Ummah. Each one will claim that he is a prophet; but I am the last of the Prophets (Seal of the Prophets), and there will be no Prophet after me.'” (Ahmad.)

The Prophet said, “Verily before the Day of Resurrection there will appear the Dajjal, and 30 or more liars.” (Ahmad.)

Ibn ‘Umar said, “I heard the Prophet say, ‘Among my Ummah there will be more than 70 callers, each of whom will be calling people to Hell-fire. If I wished, I could tell you their names and tribes.'”Abu Bakrah said, “The people spoke a great deal against Musaylimah before the Prophet said anything about him. Then the Prophet got up to give a speech and said: ‘…as for this man about whom you have spoken so much – he is one of the 30 liars who will appear before the Hour, and there is no town which will not feel the fear of the Antichrist.'” (Ahmad.)

In another version of this report, the Prophet said, “He is one of the 30 liars who will appear before the Dajjal. There is no town which will escape the fear of the Djjal, apart from Madinah. At that time there will be two angels at every entrance of Madinah, warding off the fear of the Antichrist.”

Anas ibn Malik said, “The Prophet said, ‘The time of the Dajjal will be years of confusion. People will believe a liar, and disbelieve one who tells the truth. People will distrust one who is trustworthy, and trust one who is treacherous; and the Ruwaybidah will have a say.’ Someone asked, ‘Who are the Ruwaybidah?’ He said, ‘Those who rebel against Allah and will have a say in general affairs.'” (Ahmad.)

I have some questions for our Muslim readers, in the Muslim Hadith 7040 it says: “Abu Huraira reported Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: Hasten in performing these good deeds (before these) six things (happen): (the appearance) of tribe Dijjal, the smoke, the beast of the earth, the rising of the sun from the west, the general turmoil (leadina to large-scale massacre) and death of masses and individuals.”

I assume the “large-scale massacre” will be the Sufyaani which we have already talked about, but then again, it is my understanding that only Shia believe that.  So what do you think the “large-scale massacre” will be?  I am assuming that the “beast of the earth” is Dajjal himself, please tell me if I’m wrong.  I also assume the tribe of Dajjal is speaking of the followers of Dajjal.  I know that not everyone believes the same way and I will be putting up what others say about some of those questions, what is your opinion??

I asked a Muslim friend (thank you Stefan), what “the smoke” was; And his opinion on, “the sun rising from the West”, his answers are below.  You can find this in the comment section of this post.  The post itself is on Dajjal so you may find it interesting as well.  The links to ‘openburhan.net’, are very informative, basically it gives a list of different translations to each verse in the Quran.  It even breaks down the root of certain words.  You should check it out.  That’s one of the things I like about Stefan, he spells out everything he says and points out why he feels what he feels.  (Again, I encourage you to add ‘Truth Booth’ to your blogroll/links and or bookmarks) (Did I tell you that I admire his thinking?? ) (I know, I’m easily amused

Eagle,

The word (dukhanun) Smoke appears twice in the Quran

http://www.openburhan.net/ob.php?root=%D8%AF%D8%AE%D9%86%0D 

Once when describing the beginning

Then He settled to the sky, while it was still smoke, and He said to it, and to the Earth: “Come willingly or unwillingly.” They said: “We come willingly.” (41:11)

http://www.openburhan.net/ob.php?sid=41&vid=11

And the other when describing the ending

Therefore, watch for the day when the sky will bring a visible smoke. (44:10)

http://www.openburhan.net/ob.php?sid=44&vid=10

“sun raising in the west”

I can’t find anything in the Quran concerning the above statement, however many Muslims believe that its proven by the Quran.

Rising of the Sun from the West

The rising of the sun from the west is also a major sign of Qiyamah proven by the Quran and Sunnah.
Allah says in the Qur’an,

“The day when some signs of your Lord will come, no good will it do to a person to believe then, if he believed not before, nor earned good (by performing deeds of righteousness) through his faith.” (Surah Al-An’aam) (6:158)

http://www.openburhan.net/ob.php?sid=6&vid=158

The verse is referring to the rising of the sun from the west, as is the opinion of the majority of the commentators. (Tabari/Ibne Kathir)

Imam Tabari, after mentioning the different opinions of the commentators writes, “The most correct opinion in regards to the meaning of this verse is that what is apparent from the reports narrated from the Prophet that he said, “(lmaan will be of no benefit) when the sun rises from the west.” (Tabari)

Abu Huraira reported that the Holy Prophet said, “Hasten to do good deeds before six (things happen) :Rising of the sun from the west.” (Mishkat)

http://www.al-qiyamah.org/_/satanic_signs_of_qiyamah_4.htm

(6:158) has nothing to say concerning the “Rising of the Sun from the West”.

And sometimes the following verses are misinterpreted.

Some Islamic interpreters have even boldly declared that the moon will crash into the sun on this Day of Judgment.

يَسْـئَلُ أَيَّانَ يَوْمُ الْقِيَامَةِ

He asks: “When is the Day of Resurrection?” (75:6)

http://www.openburhan.net/ob.php?sid=75&vid=6

فَإِذَا بَرِقَ الْبَصَرُ

So, when the sight is dazzled. (75:7)

http://www.openburhan.net/ob.php?sid=75&vid=7

وَخَسَفَ الْقَمَرُ

And the moon is eclipsed. (75:8)

http://www.openburhan.net/ob.php?sid=75&vid=8

وَجُمِعَ الشَّمْسُ وَالْقَمَرُ

And the sun and moon are joined together. (75:9)

http://www.openburhan.net/ob.php?sid=75&vid=9

The sight is dazzled when there is a total solar eclipse and it normally lasts a few minutes. Sight may also be dazzled by a lack, not abundance, of light as is the case here. The Quran is clearly referring to a solar eclipse, a natural phenomenon beyond human manipulation.

The Sun and Moon joining together can be due to their appearance on the same straight line of sight, and not as a dramatically apocalyptic sign as I have previously said (here) at your blog

And its not related to “The splitting of the Moon” which is another sign.

Peace D

  

If there are any other Muslim readers who have different answers please add them to the comment area.  I will post them on my other blogs as well, I have many non-Muslim readers scattered about who are interested in your thoughts.  In my research I did see some Muslims commenting on what they thought “the sun rising in the West” means to them, and I will attempt to find that and post it later.   

http://www.islamworld.net/hour/Five.txt

More On Different Views Among Muslims Or The Case For Quran Only

More On The Differing Views Of Muslims magnify

  

I know we are in the middle of a series, but I am not prepared for my next post just yet.  I have been saving this one for a while now, even though I wanted to put it up some time ago.  As we have seen over this series there are many different views amongst Muslims.  Between Shia and Sunni, they don’t even have the same Hadiths, which in fact brings me to this post.  There are many questions to my Muslim friends and this post is primarily for them, but everyone should find it informative and interesting.     

This post is dedicated to at least two people whom I have the pleasure of calling friends.  As I have said many times, not every Muslim believes the same way.  There are some who believe in using only the Quran, and that is what this post is about.  I hope you will find it as fascinating as I did, whether you be Christian or Muslim.  I would ask Muslims to read and consider what they have to say, it makes a lot of sense.  

There is another group of Muslims who only look to the Quran called Rashadiites or those who believe in whatever  Rashad Khalifa has to say.  According to what I have been told, they base all their beliefs on what one mans ‘interpretation’ of the original Quran Arabic, and they even leave out some verses (at least that’s the way I understand it). Knowing some of their belief, even I, who doesn’t know much, think its a stretch.  You can read more about it/them here and here.  That is not what I am referring to here, not all Muslims who believe in using only the Quran are Rashadiites.

I will be giving you Stefan’s blog address later in this post, but first let me put in my two cents worth.  One of his most recent posts, was titled, “Critical Thinking A Right (and duty) Of All Muslims”.  I have to agree with him, as it is something that is taught in Christianity as well.  As I have stated before, you must study the scriptures for yourself, if you don’t and merely believe whatever is told to you; You could end up in some death cult like Jim Jones.  

We have gone over many things when talking about Islam and their prophecy.  One of the interesting things is that neither the Mahdi nor Dajjal is mentioned in the Quran, though Gog and Magog is.  We discussed Sufyaani, and when looking at that, it appears that the fight was going to be between Shia and Sunni’s.  My concern is those who want to rush what they see as prophecy, whether it is or not, be it Christian or Muslim.  Some Sunni’s believe that the Shiite Mahdi, is actually Dajjal.  Can you see where I am going here??

I have seen numerous Muslims attack Judaism and Christianity based on those religions placing higher value on their priest’s than on God.  But by the same token, I have seen that the other way around too.  Personally I think that when things get out of balance you need to get back to basics.  When you know that different sects believe differently only because of the Hadiths, well then I have some questions of my own, and I’m not even Muslim.  Did you know that there are Hadiths saying that Muhammad forbid people from writing down what he did??  I didn’t until recently.  What the Hadiths are, is basically that, the words and deeds of Muhammad’s life.

Among the books of hadith regarded as ‘Sahih’ (verified to be authentic), we read the following:

Abi Said Al-Khudary said that the prophet said : “Do not write down anything from me except the Quran.”

[Sahih Muslim Part 18, page 229, also Ahmed, Vol. 1, Page 171]

Abu huraira said that the prophet said, “The ‘Ummam’ (nations/peoples) that preceded you have gone astray when they wrote books and upheld them besides God’s scripture”.

(Ahmed Ibn Hanbal).

The same message is documented in other Islamic references of repute:

Abu Huraira said : The messenger of God came to us while we were writing his sayings and said: “What is it you are writing?” we said “sayings (hadith) we hear from you messenger of God” he said, “A book other than God’s book?” then Abu Huraira said, “so we gathered what we had written and burnt it all”.

(Taqyeed Al-Ilm, by Al-Khateeb Al-Baghdady) also (Oloom Al-Hadith, by Ibn Salah).

I asked my friend about this and how so many can ignore it, when so many others follow nothing but the Hadiths.  His answer was this;

“according to most scholars and researchers, this hadith was specific to the time when the Qur’an was still being written. The reason behind this command was to prevent any risk of confusing the Qur’an with Hadith. However, once the revelation was completed and it was certain that no more verses were going to be descended, it was permissible; and even an obligation to write down the Hadith to preserve it throughout time, because, had the memorizers of the Hadith passed away before writing it down, the Hadiths could have disappeared.”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadith#Controversy

Surah 6

The majority of those on Earth they will lead you (Muhammad) astray because they follow conjecture and what they have found their fathers doing!

“What if their fathers did not understand anything and were not guided ?”

“Shall I seek other than God as a judge when He has sent down to you this Scripture fully detailed?” Those to whom We have given the Scripture know it is sent down from your Lord with truth; so do not be of those who have doubt. (6:114)

And the word of your Lord has been completed with truth and justice; there is no changing His words. He is the Hearer, the Knower. (6:115)

And if you obey the majority of those on Earth they will lead you astray; that is because they follow conjecture, and that is because they only guess. (6:116)

http://www.openburhan.net/ob.php?sid=6&vid=114
http://www.openburhan.net/ob.php?sid=6&vid=115
http://www.openburhan.net/ob.php?sid=6&vid=116

Those who have set up partners will Say: “If God wished, we would not have set up partners, nor would have our fathers, nor would we have forbidden anything.” Those before them lied in the same way, until they tasted Our might. Say: “Do you have any knowledge to bring out to us? You only follow conjecture, you only guess.” (6:148)

http://www.openburhan.net/ob.php?sid=6&vid=148

“No, we will follow what we found our fathers doing.”

It seems to me that so many Muslims are following the footsteps of their fathers without understanding, they are no better than their forefathers and its true and normal according to the Quran to follow others rather than God.

And if they are told: “Follow what God has sent down,” they Say: “No, we will follow what we found our fathers doing!” What if their fathers did not understand anything and were not guided? (2:170)

http://www.openburhan.net/ob.php?sid=2&vid=170

And if they are told: “Follow that which God has sent down.” They Say: “No, we will follow what we found our fathers doing.” What if the devil had been leading them to the agony of Hell? (31:21)

http://www.openburhan.net/ob.php?sid=31&vid=21

two ??

What if their fathers did not understand anything and were not guided?

What if the devil had been leading them to the agony of Hell?

Another comment by Stefan my friend on my WordPress blog, you can see where he is answering someone elses questions;

You have to understand that the verses of the Quran were used to command Mohamed and the Believers all the time, I mean when its time of peace and when its time of war. Every verse of the Quran is related to a certain specific historical incident.

The Qur’an is claimed to be the literal word(s) of Allah as passed to Muhammad. Are you denying this claim? Is the Qur’an more like the general gist of Allah? Are you not flirting with apostasy?

The Qur’an is the literal word(s) of Allah as passed to Muhammad

The Quran is a condensed non-abrogated balanced message, and at the same time its a poem, its not a 1 2 3 book and you have to read it carefully and in context.

Any verse abrogated or quoted out of context misses the whole point of the message of the Quran.

http://pressthat.wordpress.com/2007/09/22/war-in-the-quran/

http://pressthat.wordpress.com/2007/10/21/not-a-single-verse-of-the-quran-is-abrogated/

http://pressthat.wordpress.com/2007/09/22/abrogation-the-biggest-lie-against-quran/

but a lot of verses DO suit their purposes (the dehumanization and violence towards Non-believers, etc).

It is important that we study the religious texts in their proper context. When these texts are not read in their proper textual and historical contexts they are manipulated and distorted.

It is true that some Muslims manipulate some verses from the Quran for their own goals. But this is not only with Islamic texts, it is also true with the texts of other religions. I can quote dozens of verses from the Bible which seem very violent, if taken out from their historical context.

These Biblical texts have been used by many violent Jewish and Christian groups. Crusaders used them against Muslims and Jews. Nazis used them against Jews. Recently Serbian Christians used them against Bosnian Muslims. Zionists are using them regularly against Palestinians.

“How is that not supposed to reflect on the religion as a whole???”

Do not misuse or misinterpret the religious texts of other faiths in order to defame them __ Stefan

I will leave my other blogs address below so you can read more of his comments on that blog.  Also I want to encourage you to read the posts at the links he gave for pressthat.wordpress.com which is his blog.  You can find an article on that verse here the same article is also here.  In addition to that, the links for “openburhan”, are where you can find listed various translations of different verses in the Quran it is very informative. 

But I must say that if you read nothing else, or before you read any of the other blog entries of Stefan and Sukran on PressThat at wordpress,  Read thisIt is or rather shows different Hadiths that contradict the Quran.  Food for thought here, so bear with me… If I as a Christian, followed what the Bible said, and then some hundred years later or so, some book pops up that said, hey I was a disciple and Jesus said ‘this’; but that ‘this’, contradicted what I knew that the Bible said… who should I listen too??

It is my understanding that Muslims consider the Quran to be the actual word of God.  So why would it need, or should it need something else to complete it??  Do you get what I am saying here??  Please don’t misunderstand me, I am not trying to defame your religion.  Those of you who know me from my other blogs know that.  I am merely pointing out some interesting questions and asking for your opinion on it and pointing you towards something you may find challenging.  As challenging as I found it.  If you look at what he has to say, with an open mind, it makes sense.

On more comment and question.  I watched a video of a Preacher who met with and had a hour long interview with the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem.  (for those who don’t know, he would be the third highest behind the Mufti of Mecca and Medina)  During that interview the Preacher asked the Mufti if it was true that there is no compulsion in Islam.  The Mufti said it was true and they discussed it for a bit.  At this point the Preacher asked the Mufti, “If there is no compulsion in Islam, shouldn’t that apply to Muslims as well??”  Actually I think the way he put it was, “So it’s ok for Muslims to convert to Christianity?” It was one of those two comments, at any rate the Mufti was not amused at the comment and actually got angry.  I will find the video and put it up if you want to see it.  But my question is the same as his…

Shouldn’t what is written in the Quran apply to Muslims more than anyone??  And yet someone like my friend here would be considered an apostate because he believes in the Quran alone.  In Islam, changing your faith can be punished with prison or death, depending on the country you are in.  In some parts of the world, someone could come up and kill you for no other reason than you don’t believe the way they do.  Something is seriously wrong with that picture.  Why is it against the law??  Doesn’t the Quran also say that those “apostates”, will have their punishment in the after life??  So why make it a crime now??  And how can making it a crime be justified??  These aren’t rhetorical questions, I would really like an answer. 

In the West the only law we have concerning religion is that we are to be free to worship who we want and how we want, or not if that’s our wish.  Those of you who aren’t American, you do realize why America was formed??  Back in the day, those from England came to America to have freedom of religion.  The King or Queen of England was known as “The Keeper Of The Faith”, which was intertwined with the Catholic Church and then Protestant.  At the time there was no freedom of religion, wars were fought over whether the country would remain Catholic or change.  ((Historians, don’t jump on me, that was just a very small rough draft, to make a point .))  The point is, from the very beginning of America, the government was set up to keep separate religion and government so as to not have the problems that Mary Queen of Scots and Victoria were having in England, and there abouts.

Now that I’ve blathered on, , what is wrong with having freedom of religion, when even the Quran calls for it??     

As you can see, and I have said, Islam is as varied as Christianity, and at least some sects seem a bit ‘out there’, as do some of ours.  The person I have been speaking of is the one who wrote “Don’t blame the Jews” which I posted a little while ago.  I am interested in what our Muslim readers think about it.  Please comment and share your thoughts.  Please note that when going to “Pressthat” it always opens to “About Us”, but if you look on the sidebar you can find the most recent posts.

That was going to be my final thing for this post, because it is getting long, but I just had to add this last thing.  As I said, I will put my other blog address below, starting with where my friend started commenting so you can read his thoughts.  In the mean time, I have to put this last comment of his on here, since we are talking about apostates,  Hadiths and the Quran. Another thing I want to say, for all the calls for death for all who don’t believe like the Islamist…  I have had the pleasure to make friends of Muslims from all of the main sects in Islam.  We hear so many horrible things from people who claim to be Muslim, while they violate the Quran on a daily basis.  It is a wonderful thing when we have the tool you are on right now, to make friends of others from different religions and to discuss our religion, ask questions, answer questions, and all without trying to kill one another.  As long as we do that, there is always hope.  Ok time for the last comment (I promise)…  This answer is in regards to a question about the verse in the Bukhari which states; “Whoever changes their religion, kill them”.The Messenger of Allah SalAllahu alaihi wasallam said:
من بدّل دينه فاقتلوه
“Whoever changes his religion, kill him”. (Bukhari)

I believe that Islam can only be found in the Quran and the messenger’s job to deliver the message.

The teachings of the message delivered by the messenger doesn’t mention any punishments for the Apostate, because he is going to be the loser after all.

وَلاَ تَسُبُّواْ الَّذِينَ يَدْعُونَ مِن دُونِ اللّهِ فَيَسُبُّواْ اللّهَ عَدْوًا بِغَيْرِ عِلْمٍ كَذَلِكَ زَيَّنَّا لِكُلِّ أُمَّةٍ عَمَلَهُمْ ثُمَّ إِلَى رَبِّهِم مَّرْجِعُهُمْ فَيُنَبِّئُهُم بِمَا كَانُواْ يَعْمَلُونَ

And do not insult those who call on other than God, lest they insult God without knowledge. And We have similarly adorned for every nation their works; then to their Lord is their return and He will inform them of what they had done. 6:108

http://www.openburhan.net/ob.php?sid=6&vid=108

وَإِذَا سَمِعُوا اللَّغْوَ أَعْرَضُوا عَنْهُ وَقَالُوا لَنَا أَعْمَالُنَا وَلَكُمْ أَعْمَالُكُمْ سَلَامٌ عَلَيْكُمْ لَا نَبْتَغِي الْجَاهِلِينَ

And if they come across vain talk, they disregard it and Say: “To us are our deeds, and to you is your deeds. Peace be upon you. We do not seek the ignorant.” 28:55

http://www.openburhan.net/ob.php?sid=28&vid=55

وَلَا تُجَادِلُوا أَهْلَ الْكِتَابِ إِلَّا بِالَّتِي هِيَ أَحْسَنُ إِلَّا الَّذِينَ ظَلَمُوا مِنْهُمْ وَقُولُوا آمَنَّا بِالَّذِي أُنزِلَ إِلَيْنَا وَأُنزِلَ إِلَيْكُمْ وَإِلَهُنَا وَإِلَهُكُمْ وَاحِدٌ وَنَحْنُ لَهُ مُسْلِمُونَ

And do not argue with the people of the Scripture except in the best manner; except for those who are wicked amongst them; and Say: “We believe in what was revealed to us and in what was revealed to you, and our god and your god is the same; to Him we surrender.” 29:46

http://www.openburhan.net/ob.php?sid=29&vid=46

We believe that the message is the Truth and we must explain our point of view in a good manner and we have nothing to worry about from apostates but unfortunately the Bukharians who are using the name of Islam to kill anyone who disagree with their policies, exposing their man made religion is a fear for all of them, thats why they think that killing is the solution to avoid those who reject their teachings.

http://pressthat.wordpress.com/

https://eaglespearlsofwisdom.wordpress.com/2007/10/08/israel-prophecy-and-the-end-times-1/

There is an ongoing discussion here:

https://eaglespearlsofwisdom.wordpress.com/2007/10/24/the-women-with-mustaches-who-will-kill-the-mahdi-1/

Dajjal – Islamic anti-Christ 1

Dajjal - Islamic anti-Christ magnify

Islam has it’s own anti-Christ which they refer to as Dajjal. It covers possibly a person, or a system, or an unseen cultural/social source, or some or all of these. There are discriptions of Dajjal in Islamic text, and there are numerous different ideas on what/who Dajjal is. We will be going over these over the next several posts.

Same thing applies here as in posts about the Mahdi. Shia and Sunni have different Hadiths, so they may not believe the same way. The main thing is, Dajjal, the Mahdi, and I think the second coming of Jesus Christ are NOT in the Quran. Which explains why there are different beliefs among different sects in Islam.

Dajjal is described as;

#1 Will have one eye floating like a grape.
#2 Can be heard all over the world at the same time.
#3 Will show you fire but will not burn you.
#4 Will show you water but you will not be able to drink it.
#5 Will talk of the Garden, and make it seem like Fire.
#6 Will talk of the Fire, and make it seem like the Garden. (Heaven and Hell)
Sounds like the media, even C.B.S.#7 Dajjal is also described as having multiple eyes on both sides.
#8 And traveling the world in large hops.
#9 Dajjal is also supposed to have the letters KFR written on his forehead. Which is said to mean Kufar. (unbelievers)

I was shocked to see that at least some say that some of the Jets of the Israeli Air Force have the letters KFR printed on the nose of their planes. Imagine calling Israel Dajjal, or blaming the Jews for anything in regards to Islam. I have never been so shocked…….

More discriptions of Dajjal;

#10 He will be blind in his left eye.
#11 He will have very thick hair on his body.
#12 He will have his own type of Heaven and Hell with him.
#13 Although his Heaven, will appear like Heaven, it is in fact Hell and vice versa.
#14 He will be short and his legs will be crooked.
#15 The hair on his head will be extremely twisted.
#16 He will have one eye (with which he can see, and this is the protruding eye about which other ahadeeth inform us) while his other eye will be totally flat. It will neither be deep (in its socket) nor protruding.
Sounds like a troll.

#17 Abu Saeed said, that Muhammad said, “Dajjal will come but it will be prohibited and impossible for him to enter Madina. He will set up camp in a barren land outside Madina. One person who will be the best of persons will confront him by saying: “I bear witness that you are the very Dajjal about whom Muhammad has informed us.”

#18 Imraan bin Husain said, that Muhammad said, “A person will approach him thinking him to be a Believer, but on seeing his amazing feats he will become his follower.”

#19 Dajjal will say to his followers, “If I kill this person and then revive him, you people will still doubt me?” They will reply “No”. He will then kill this person, (according to another narration he will split this person in two) and thereafter revive him. This person will say, “I am totally convinced more than ever before that you definitely are Dajjal.” (How will that gain him followers?) Dajjal will attempt to kill him again, but will not be able too and, according to one Hadith, will never be able to harm anyone again.

#20 Dajjal will come and finally reach the outskirts of Madina. There will be three tremors. At that time, all the disbelievers and hypocrites will flee (from Madina).

#21 Hadhrat Asma bint Yazeed said, that Muhammad once came to his house and there he spoke about Dajjal. He said that before the emergence of Dajjal there will be three spells of drought.

In one year the skies will withold one third of its rains, causing the earth to withold one third of its produce.

In the second year the skies will withold two thirds of its rains, causing the earth to withold two thirds of its produce.

In the third year, the skies will withold all its water and there will be no crops that year. All animals, be they hooved or toothed, will die as a result.

The greatest evil of Dajjall will be to approach anyone and ask him: “If I bring your camel back to life, will you then believe that I am your Rabb (Sustainer/Allah/God)?” At that the person will say, “Most certainly.” Thereafter Shaytaan (from the many Shayateen who will always accompany Dajjal) (Shaytaan sounds like Satan, but Dajjal is also considered a devil) will appear before this person in the form of his camel with a fat hump and fully laden udders.

Umm, no disrespect intended here, but how will the family milk the camel if it is a Shaytaan and not really a camel??

Likewise Dajjal will appear before another person whose father and brother have long passed away and ask him, “If I bring your father and brother back to life will you believe that I am your Rabb?”This person will reply, “Why not?” Shaytaan will once again take on the appearance of his brother and father…

Hadhrat Mughira ibn Shu’ba said, “No one asked Muhammad more about Dajjah as myself”. (sounds a bit conceded) He went on to say, Muhammad told me, “How can he possibly harm you?”

He said he told Muhammad; “People are saying that he will have with him a mountain of bread (provisions) and a river of water.” Then Muhammad told him; “In the sight of Allah he is much more disgraced than that. (i.e. Allah knows full well that in reality Dajjal has nothing with him, and all that which appears to be with him is but deception). (Bukhari and Muslim).

Other Hadiths about Dajjal some of which is already listed

#1 He will emerge between Shaam (Syria) and Iraq, and his emergence will become known when he is in Isfahan at a place called Yahudea (Judea) (is there even a place in Isfahan called Judea??).
#2 The Yahudis (Jews) of Isfahan will be his main followers. (again with the Jews)
#3 Apart from having mainly Yahudi (Jewish) followers, he will have a great number of women followers as well. (well of course, Islam makes it pretty clear that women are stupid and act based on hormones)
#4 He will have with him fire and water, but in reality the fire will be cold water while that what appears to be cold water will in reality be a blazing fire.
#5 Those who obey him will enter “his Jannat” while those who disobey him will enter “his Jahannam.” (Heaven/Hell)
#6 There will be a thick fingernail-like object in his left eye.
#7 The letters “Kaa” “Faa” “Raa” will appear on his forehead and will be deciphered by all Mu’mineen regardless of them being literate or not.
#8 He will have a wheatish complexion. (I read somewhere else, it would be redish, so which is it??)
#9 He will travel at great speeds and his means of conveyance will be a gigantic mule.
#10 It is said that he will play beautiful music which will attract the music lovers.
#11 Dajjal will lay claim to prophethood.
#12 He will then lay claim to Divinity.
#13 He will perform unusual feats.
#14 He will travel the entire world. He will send down rains upon those who believe in him, which in turn will cause good crops to grow, trees to bear fruit and cattle to grow fat. (Umm, doesn’t this contradic #21 above?)
#15 He will cause drought to those who disbelieve in him, resulting in starvation and hardship for them.
#16 During those trying times the Mu’mineen will satiate their hunger through the recitation of Subanallah and La’ilaha Ilallahu.
#17 The hidden treasures will spill forth at his command. He will stay on this Earth for a period of forty days; the length of the first day will be one year, the second day will be equal to one month, the third day will be equal to a week and the remaining days will be normal. (OK, why not just say he will be here 14 months and 7 days?? anyone??)
#18 He will be unable to enter Mecca because the Malaikah (Angels) will be guarding the Holy City and nor will he be able to enter Madina because there will be Malaikah guarding each of the seven entrances to Madina; From Madina he will proceed towards Shaam (Syria) where Imam Mahdi will be stationed.
#19 Finally Isa (Jesus) will descend from the heavens and pursue him and eventually kill him at present day Lydda (Baad Lud).

from: “Signs of Qiyamah”
by Mohammed Ali Ibn Zubair Ali

I don’t know if many of my Muslim readers know about the Christian anti-Christ, (of which I will be getting to); I want to add some words of caution here, we will get into it in more detail later but… In Christian texts, Satan is described as beautiful, actually he was the most beautiful of the Angels. When we look at the description of Dajjal in Islamic text, he is far from inviting, and sure to be recognized. When we talk of the Christian anti-Christ you will see exactly what I am talking about.

BUT… You should always remember that Satan, is cunning, he isn’t going to jump out and say, “Hi, I’m Satan”. In addition to that, your text talks about being one thing and seeing another (ie; his heaven is hell, his hell is heaven; his water is fire and vice versa). Don’t you thing that Dajjal may in fact be that way too???

Seriously, do read all of the posts in this series, even the Christian signs. We should all know what each text says and how they intertwine. Again, I would also ask that people not jump the gun before I get to those parts. I haven’t forgotten anything yet. Again, there are differences between Shia and Sunni text. We will be getting deeper into Dajjal and different theories of who and what is Dajjal.

http://sibacisse.com/religion/islam/dajjal/

http://www.shiachat.com/forum/lofiversion/index.php/t80185.html

The Mahdi Hadiths 2

The Mahdi Hadiths 2 magnify

 

Remember I said that not everyone gives the same credit for every Hadith, below are ones that their authenticity is in question. That according to at least one Muslim. The same applies here, as in yesterdays post, after each Hadith is where they can be found and who said it. Remember that they are saying that Muhammad said these things.
 

The world will not come to an end until a man from my family (ahl al-bayt), who will be called al-Mahdi, emerges to rule upon my community. (Bihar al-anwar, Vol. 51, P. 75; Ithbat al-hudat, Vol. 1, P. 9)(Mahdi will be among my progeny, among the children of Fatima. (Bihar al-anwar, Vol. 51, P. 75) Umme Salmah

The world will not come to an end until a man from the descendants of Hussain takes charge of the affairs of the world and fills it with justice and equity as it is filled with injustice and tyranny. (Bihar al-anwar, Vol. 51, P. 66)

The earth will be filled with injustice and corruption. At that time, a man from among my progeny will rise and will rule for seven or nine years and will fill the earth with justice and equity. (Ahmad b. Hanbal, Musnad, Vol. 3, P. 27) Abu Sa’id al-Khudari

Listen to the good news about the Mahdi! He will rise at the time when people will be faced with severe conflict and the earth will be hit by a violent quake. He will fill the earth with justice and equity as it is filled with injustice and tyranny. He will fill the hearts of his followers with devotion and will spread justice everywhere. (Bihar al-anwar, Vol. 51, P. 74) Abu al-Hujaf

“Is Mahdi going to be among our own family or from some other?” He replied: “He will be among us. God will conclude His religion through him, just as He began it with us. It will be through us that people will find refuge from sedition, just as it was through us that they were saved from polytheism. Moreover, it will be through us that God will bring their hearts together in brotherhood following the animosity sown by the sedition, just as they were brought together in brotherhood in their religion after the animosity sown by polytheism.” (Bihar al-anwar, Vol. 51, P. 84; Ithbat al-hudat, Vol. 7, P. 191; Majma` al-zawa’id by `Ali b. Abi Bakr Haythami (Cairo edition), Vol. 7, P. 317) Ali b. Abi Talib

The Mahdi from among my descendants, from my family, will rise at the End of Time, while the heavens will pour rain and the earth will bring forth green grass for him. He will fill the earth with justice and equity as it is filled with tyranny and injustice. (Bihar al-anwar, Vol. 51, P. 74; Ithbat al-hudat, Vol. 7, P. 9)

Severe calamity from the direction of their ruler will befall my people during the Last Days. It will be a calamity which, in severity, shall be unprecedented. It will be so violent that the earth with injustice and corruption will shrivel for its inhabitants. The believers will not find refuge from oppression. At that time God will send a man from my family to fill the earth with justice and equity just as it is filled with injustice and tyranny. The dwellers of the heavens and the earth will be pleased with him. The earth will bring forth all that grows for him, and the heavens will pour down rains in abundance. He will live among the people for seven or nine years. From all the good that God will bestow on the inhabitants of the earth, the dead will wish to come to life again. (Ibn Hajar, al-Sawa’iq al-muharriqa, P. 161; Yanabi’ al-mawadda, Vol. 2, P. 177) Abu Sa’id al-Khudari

People will pay allegiance to the Mahdi between rukn and maqam (in Mekkah). (Ibn Tawus, Kitab al-malahim wa al-fitan, P. 64.)  Abu Hurayra

The following is sayings not attributed to Muhammad but are 2nd hand accounts attributed to companions of Muhammad. I thought that is what the other stuff we have covered is.  Basically it is one person saying that he heard Muhammad say this or that, or a person heard a companion of Muhammad say this or that.  Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t that basically what the Hadiths are??  Anyway, if not all of these are given the same amount of weight…the question is why.  At least where I found these, they were called, ‘unreliable’.  That is a pretty strong word, why would you believe in it, if you consider it unreliable?

At the time when Nafs al-Zakiyya is killed a caller from the heaven will say: ‘Your commander is so-and-so.’ (announce Mahdi) Following it the Mahdi will emerge and fill the earth with justice and equity. (Ibn Tawus, Kitab al-malahim wa al-fitan, P. 179) Ammar Yasir 

Abd Allah b. Umar mentioned the name of Mahdi in the presence of an Arab who said: Mahdi is Mu’awiya b. Abu Sufyan. Abd Allah said:
It is not as you say. Mahdi is a person behind whom Jesus will offer his prayers. (Ibn Tawus, Kitab al-malahim wa al-fitan, P. 179) 

One of the Prophet’s companions told me that the Mahdi will not appear until that time when Nafs al-Zakiyya will be killed. At that time he will take the command and will fill the earth with justice and equity. (Ibn Tawus, Kitab al-malahim wa al-fitan, P. 171)  Mujahid

Nufayl’s daughter Umayra narrates that she heard Hasan b. Ali’s daughter saying:  This affair about which you are waiting will not occur until among you some seek to distance themselves from the others and curse each other.  (Majlisi, Bihar al-anwar, Vol. 52, P. 211)  ((Well in my limited view of what I have seen in different Muslim forums and on different blogs, that is happening.))

Salma b. Zafar reports that one day people were talking about the appearance of the Mahdi in the presence of Hudhayfa. Hudhayfa said: If Mahdi has indeed appeared while you are living close to the Prophet’s period and while his companions are living among you, then you are truly fortunate. However, that is not the case. Mahdi will not appear until people are devoured by oppression and tyranny and there is no one absent more beloved and more needed than him. (Kitab al-hawi li al-fatawa, Vol. 2, P. 159)

What is next is some stuff that is considered false and rejected by Muslim scholars evidently for centuries.  It is said that none of it is attributed to Muhammad.

Amr son of Shamer quoted Jabir, who quoted Mohammed bin Ali to have said: For our Mahdi, there are two signs. Since the birth of Universe, these events have never taken place. Those two signs are that there will be Lunar Eclipse on the first night of Ramadhan and Solar Eclipse in the middle of Ramadhan. (Dar-e-Qatni, Vol. 1, P.188)

That last one, could have fooled me, every Shiite site I have been to, talks about this as if it were fact.  That is why every Ramadan we hear from Ahmadnutjob.  Seeing that saying and what was said about it, leads me to believe that maybe the person who listed all these Hadiths was a Sunni, but I don’t know for sure.  Also, I have written a whole lot of stuff that the Shiites say will happen, how many of those things are listed in todays or yesterdays post??  Why are they missing??  Is it merely because the person writing this is not Shia??  I have no clue, I am merely telling you what is being said and reported as prophecy within Islam in regards to the Mahdi.

Obviously not all Christians believe in the rapture and I even saw at least one book dedicated to shooting down that part of Christianity that many Christians believe, including myself.  When it comes to the in’s and out’s of the different beliefs of different Muslim sects, I will have to rely on Muslims to answer my questions… so come on guys, I know for fact I have several Muslim friends, which encompass Sunni, Shiite, Sufi, and Quran alone.  So far, only my Sunni friend and my Quran alone friend has commented on these posts.  Am I shamming you into commenting yet??    

WOW, I managed to write a post under 2500 words even under 1500, wonders never cease   let’s call it a night.  Till next time  .
 

The Mahdi in Sunni Hadiths 1

The Mahdi In Sunni Hadiths magnify

We have talked a lot about many beliefs of Shia Muslims, with at least some Sunni beliefs mixed in. In this post I want to write what some have said are the Sunni hadiths in regards to the Mahdi. I say, “what some have said”, for a reason, since I found numerous beliefs in regards to Shiites, I didn’t want to say that “this is for sure”, in Sunni beliefs. It should be also noted that it appears that it was a Shia Muslims who wrote the article, as you can see from the first sentence.

In spite of the most unfavorable conditions under the Umayyads and the `Abbasids, whose politics and oppressive governments did not allow the discussion or the spread of hadith about wilayat and imamat and the ahl al-bayt or their being recorded in the books of the hadith, they are not completely void of any traditions on the subject of the Mahdi.For example, the following:

‘Abd Allah reports from the Prophet, who said:

“The world will not come to pass until a man from among my family, whose name will be my name, rules over the Arabs.”

Tirmidhi has recorded this hadith in his Sahih and comments:

“This hadith on the Mahdi is reliable, and has been related by ‘Ali b. Abi Talib, Abu Sa’id, Umm Salma and Abu Hurayra”:

‘Ali b. Abi Talib has narrated from the Prophet, who said:

“Even if there remains only a day on earth, God will bring forth a man from my progeny so that he will fill the earth with justice and equity as it is filled with tyranny.”

In another hadith Umm Salma narrates that she heard the Prophet say:

“The promised Mahdi will be among my progeny, among the descendants of Fatima.”

Abu Sa’id al-Khudari says:

The Prophet said: “Our Mahdi will have a broad forehead and a pointed nose. He will fill the earth with justice as it is filled with injustice and tyranny. He will rule for seven years.”((don’t jump the gun here, we will get to it))

‘Ali b. Abi Talib has related a tradition from the Prophet who informed him:

The promised Mahdi will be among my family. God will make the provisions for his emergence within a single night.

Abu Sa’id al-Khudari has related a tradition from the Prophet who declared:

The earth will be filled with injustice and corruption. At that time, a man from among my progeny will rise and will rule for seven or nine years and will fill the earth with justice and equity. ((there’s that 7 year thing again, which we will get too))

Greater detail is provided in another hadith reported by Abu Sa’id al-Khudari. In this tradition the Prophet said:

Severe calamity from the direction of their ruler will befall my people during the Last Days. It will be a calamity which, in severity, shall be unprecedented. It will be so violent that the earth with injustice and corruption will shrivel for its inhabitants. The believers will not find refuge from oppression. At that time God will send a man from my family to fill the earth with justice and equity just as it is filled with injustice and tyranny. The dwellers of the heavens and the earth will be pleased with him. The earth will bring forth all that grows for him, and the heavens will pour down rains in abundance. He will live among the people for seven or nine years. From all the good that God will bestow on the inhabitants of the earth, the dead will wish to come to life again.

There are numerous traditions that convey these meanings.

Sahihs Of Moslem and bukhari

To be sure, the Sahihs of Muslim and Bukhari, whose authority is accepted by all the Sunnis, are not completely devoid of traditions about the Mahdi, although the term mahdi has not been used to express this belief among Muslims. Following is one such hadith:

It is reported from Abu Hurayra that the Prophet said: “What will be your reaction when the son of Mary descends and your Imam is among yourselves?”

There are a number of other traditions on a similar theme in these two compilations. It is also important to bear in mind that Ibn Khaldun has neither totally falsified all the traditions about the Mahdi, nor has he claimed that he does not accept them. The context of Ibn Khaldun’s remark about these traditions is provided by his opening statement in this section when he says:

It has been well known (and generally accepted) by all Muslims in every epoch, that at the end of time a man from the family (of the Prophet) will without fail make his appearance, who will strengthen Islam and make justice triumph. Muslims will follow him, and he will gain domination over the Muslim realm. He will be called the Mahdi.

It is evident that he has briefly accepted the fact that the belief in the awaited Mahdi is common among Muslims. Moreover, after his critical evaluation of the traditions and their transmitters he concludes the discussion with the following observation:

This is the situation of the traditions about the awaited Mahdi. It has been seen in the books that, with the exception of very few, most of these traditions are regarded as unreliable.

Hence, even at this point he has not rejected all the traditions on the subject. Rather, as he confesses, some of them are authentic.

Furthermore, it is relevant to point out that the traditions on the subject of the Mahdi are not confined only to those mentioned and critically evaluated by Ibn Khaldun. Quite to the contrary, most of the books on hadith, both by the Sunnis and the Shi`ites, narrate traditions in an unbroken chain of transmission which actually comes close to their verification as being credible. Had Ibn Khaldun known about the existence of all these traditions, he would have probably regarded the belief in the Mahdi as deeply rooted in the Islamic revelation.

To conclude this discussion, we can say that it is incorrect to maintain, as some scholars do, that Ibn Khaldun rejected the tradition about the Mahdi. On the contrary, it is these authors who have read into Ibn Khaldun such an opinion.

Since even writing using code, is not showing the right quotes and unquotes, here is where the quotes end, they will begin again after the next sentence.

I stole this comment from somebody elses blog. It does a good job of breaking down the differences of opinion.

A minor point of clarification is warranted here concerning Shi’ite Islam. Shi’a is Arabic for “party”, and here it refers to the party of followers of ‘Ali. ‘Ali was the 4th Caliph after Muhammad ruled 656-661 AD, and he was related to the Prophet both as a cousin and then as the son-in-law of the Prophet. He was assassinated in 661. ‘Ali is regarded by the Shi’a as the rightful successor to the Prophet (meaning the three intervening caliphs were not regarded as true leaders of the community).

The Shi’a are distinguished from the majority of Muslims (i.e. 90% of the world of Islam is Sunni; about 8% are Shi’a) over the question of succession re ‘Ali, and on quesions of law and authority. Where Suni and Shi’a differ in law covers matters about marriage and inheritance rights; in matters of ritual the Shi’a have a slight difference in their Call to Prayer. In authority they have a political view of the Imam as head or leader that differs from Sunni views of the Caliphate.

Now Shi’a Islam is not uniform but consists of three main branches.

1. The Ithna ‘Asharis or Twelver Shi’ites (you have referred to above).
2. The Isma’ilis (acknowledge seven early Imams).
3. The Zaydis (Zaydiyya).

The Ithna ‘Asharis – those committed to the Twelve Imams – are those found primarily in Iran and 50% of the population of Iraq.

The Zaydis are largely found in the Yemen. The Isma’ilis are present in many places but especially in East Africa, and throughout the Indian subcontinent.

Both Sunni and Shi’a Muslims have an eschatology related to the Mahdi (“one who is rightly guided”). However the Shi’a position is connected with their understanding of the hidden twelfth Imam who is to return.

It should also be noted (separate to the Shi’a view of the Mahdi) that Jesus (known as ‘Isa) is viewed in early eschatological hadiths as the one who will return at the end of time to oppose the antiChrist figure al-Dajjal (Father of Lies). There are a few suras that also imply a 2nd coming at the end (Surah 4:159; 19:33)

Again, quotes end here.

As I have said, most Sunni’s and Shia’s disagree on who is correct. Some are violent about their disagreement, as we have seen. Below is a collection of Hadith’s, which talk about, or prophesied of, the Mahdi. If I repeat myself, I’m sorry, I’m just trying to get it all in.

I would suggest that if you don’t understand a word you can go to Wikipedia, or you can try here. In addition to that, you can go here and here to get a list of different translations of different verses of the Quran.

One of the things I have seen, which drives me nuts, is fifteen different names for the same person or thing. I don’t understand why, when talking about a certain person or subject they can’t all get on the same page and use the most common name for the subject or person at hand.

I will leave it to the Muslim readers to determine if these are in line with Sunni beliefs, Shiite beliefs or both. Unless other wise noted, each Hadith/statement, is listed as the person giving the Hadith, that prophet Mohammad said it. Did that make any sense??

The world will not come to pass until a man from among my family, whose name will be my name, rules over the Arabs. (Tirmidhi Sahih, Vol. 9, P. 74; Abu Dawud, Sahih, Vol. 5, P. 207; also narrated by Ali b. Abi Talib, Abu Sa’id, Umm Salma, Abu Hurayra) Hadhrat Abdullah bin Masood reports from the Prophet.

Allah will bring out from concealment al-Mahdi from my family and just before the day of Judgment; even if only one day were to remain in the life of the world, and he will spread on this earth justice and equity and will eradicate tyranny and oppression. (Musnad Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, Vol. 1, P. 99) Said Muhammad

Even if only a day remains for Qiyamah to come, yet Allah will surely send a man from my family who will fill this world with such justice and fairness, just as it initially was filled with oppression. (Abu Dawood) Hadhrat Ali

The promised Mahdi will be among my family. God will make the provisions for his emergence within a single night. (Ibn Majah, Sahih, Vol. 2, P. 519) Ali b. Abi Talib

The promised Mahdi will be among my progeny, among the descendants of Fatima. (Abu Dawud, Sahih, Vol. 2, P. 207; Ibn Majah, Sahih, Vol. 2, P. 519) Hazrat Umme Salmah wife of Muhammad

The Mahdi will be of my family, of the descendants of Fatima (the Prophet’s daughter). (Sunan Ibn Majah, Vol. 2, Tradition No. 4086) Muhammad

Al-Mahdi is one of us, the members of the household (Ahlul-Bayt). (Sunan Ibn Majah, Vol. 2, Tradition No. 4085)

Our Mahdi will have a broad forehead and a pointed (prominent) nose. He will fill the earth with justice as it is filled with injustice and tyranny. He will rule for seven years. (Abu Dawud, Sahih, Vol. 2, p. 208; Fusul al-muhimma, p. 275) Abu Sa’id al-Khudari ((I found this one interesting, since Christians have their own 7 year period, which we will get into.))

Al Mahdi will be from my progeny. His forehead will be broad and his nose will be high. He will fill the world with justice and fairness at a time when the world will be filled with oppression. He will rule for seven years. Hadhrat Abu Saeed KhudriAfter the death of a Ruler there will be some dispute between the people. At that time a citizen of Madina will flee (from Madina) and go to Makkah. While in Makkah, certain people will approach him between Hajrul Aswad and Maqaame Ibraheem, and forcefully pledge their allegiance to him.

Thereafter a huge army will proceed from Syria to attack him but when they will be at Baida, which is between Makkah and Madina, they will be swallowed into the ground.

On seeing this, the Abdaals of Shaam as well as large numbers of people from Iraq will come to him and pledge their allegiance to him. Then a person from the Quraish, whose uncle will be from the Bani Kalb tribe will send an army to attack him, only to be overpowered, by the will of Allah. This (defeated) army will be that of the Bani Kalb. Unfortunate indeed is he who does not receive a share from the booty of the Kalb. This person (Imam Mahdi) will distribute the spoils of war after the battle. He will lead the people according to the Sunnat and during his reign Islam will spread throughout the world. He will remain till seven years (since his emergence). He will pass away and the Muslims will perform his Janazah salaat. (Abu Dawood) Hadhrat Umme Salmah

A group of my Ummah will fight for the truth until near the day of judgment when Jesus, the son of Marry, will descend, and the leader of them will ask him to lead the prayer, but Jesus declines, saying: “No, Verily, among you Allah has made leaders for others and He has bestowed his bounty upon them. (Sahih Muslim)

What will be your reaction when the son of Mary (Jesus) descends and your Imam is from among yourselves? (Sahih Muslim, bab nuzul ‘isa, Vol. 2; Sahih Bukhari, kitab bad’ al-khalq wa nuzul ‘isa, Vol. 4) Abu Hurayra

What would be your situation if the Son of Mary (i.e. Jesus) descends upon you and your Imam is from among you? (Bukhari, kitabul-Anbiya, Chapter Nuzul Isa bin Maryam)

I read that these were widely accepted amongst Muslims, I won’t go that far, because I don’t know if all sects believe these, remember Shia have different Hadiths than Sunni. Again I would ask my Muslim readers to answer that for us. Actually you guys are falling down on the job, I have asked numerous questions and with the exception of a couple on my other blog, I’m not getting much. And I know that at I have Muslim readers on at least one of my blogs, you know who you are, can you help me out here please .

Since this post is getting long, tomorrow (or the day after) I will put up the Hadiths that are in question. I will also put up the ones that say in effect, I heard it from a guy who was a friend of a companion of the prophet Muhammad, or something to that effect. As I said, not everything is given the same weight.  And, as you have noticed there are repeats here, the same as there are repeats within the Gospels.

Oh, and I want to apologize for those of you who are attempting to pluck out your eyes at the sight of the above photo but it is halloween after all  .

http://www.irib.com/Special/Azar/Mahdi/html/en/hadith-1.htm

http://nouslife.blogspot.com/2006/08/shia-islam-mahdi-and-twelvers.html